Authentic Leadership, Industry Cycles, and AI in the Oilfield

[00:00:00] Josh Lowrey: Welcome to the Energy Pipeline podcast sponsored by Caterpillar. My name is Josh Lowery. We are coming to you live from the Upright Digital m- uh, Media studios in Prange & Associates office in Memorial, Texas. I am joined by a friend and colleague in the business, president and CEO of Key Energy Services, Mr.

[00:00:18] Josh Lowrey: Marshall Dotson. How are you, sir?

[00:00:20] Marshall Dodson: I'm doing well. How about yourself?

[00:00:21] Josh Lowrey: Marshall, we've been talking a couple minutes offline. Um, I didn't say this offline because it would sound weird if I said that and then I said it again, but there are very few people we interview that I get exci- I, I like interviewing everybody, by the way.

[00:00:35] Josh Lowrey: Former guests, thank you for your time. But I have a ton of respect for you as a person, as a professional, as a business leader, as a mentor for myself, um, from a d- a hundred different levels. And, uh, this is one of these podcasts for me that's gonna be really cool to do. Um, I hope the audience kinda hears the sincerity of me introducing Marshall on this [00:01:00] because I...

[00:01:00] Josh Lowrey: Number one, you should follow us. Marshall looks way better... Well, the... Congrats on those socks, by the way.

[00:01:05] Marshall Dodson: Yeah, well, we do have the 250, uh, the, the celebration- Yeah,

[00:01:09] Josh Lowrey: the 250- ... coming up ... years of America.

[00:01:10] Marshall Dodson: Yep. Those are- And we just had Memorial Day, so.

[00:01:12] Josh Lowrey: Those are sp- American flag socks. He looks great. He's on point.

[00:01:16] Josh Lowrey: Uh, I look like I'm wearing a pink and salmon today. I look great, too. Don't get me wrong. You look amazing. But, uh, this is gonna be a great one. Um, I met Marshall in London close to a decade ago, probably eight, nine years ago at this point, and really got to know you over there. And I said something to Marshall and I, and I was like, "Hey, I don't...

[00:01:36] Josh Lowrey: I hope this doesn't come across rude." And I said, "You know, you don't, you don't look the part of your... the typical CEO, the 6'5" guy, and, and... but you command the room. You lead a bunch of people." I said, "How do you, how do you do that?" And I, I told you offline we were gonna ask who's Marshall Dotson. I guess this is how I'm asking it.

[00:01:57] Josh Lowrey: How do you... How... Just boom. Yeah. By the way, this is the [00:02:00] best podcast you're ever gonna be on, so. Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:02:02] Marshall Dodson: I, I-

[00:02:03] Josh Lowrey: Our, our friend David Road-

[00:02:05] Marshall Dodson: He may take exception to that.

[00:02:06] Josh Lowrey: Well, I hope he does. I hope he takes a lot of exception. This is better, but go on.

[00:02:11] Marshall Dodson: Yeah, no. I, uh... Gosh, I, I remember that, but I don't remember what I said.

[00:02:17] Marshall Dodson: And- Well, yeah ... and, and, and, but, but, but the answer is I, I think a, a big part of leadership and doing that is being authentic, um, just being who you are. You see people who, who come across in certain ways, but it's hard to maintain a fake persona at all times. And I think just being real and being who you are is, is, is very powerful.

[00:02:39] Marshall Dodson: You, you see so many times these days where people try to, try to, uh... God, what's the... Like influencers, where they try to be something they're not.

[00:02:46] Josh Lowrey: Correct.

[00:02:47] Marshall Dodson: Right?

[00:02:47] Josh Lowrey: Grifters.

[00:02:47] Marshall Dodson: Yeah. And, and I think it, it's, it's... People can see through that when you're not authentic and when you don't really care.

[00:02:55] Josh Lowrey: Well, the gist of your answer then was that you really like work.

[00:02:59] Marshall Dodson: Well, I do [00:03:00] like work. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I, uh, I, I, I do like work. It, it took me many, many years for my wife to convince me that leaving the office at 7:00 was not leaving early.

[00:03:09] Josh Lowrey: Oh.

[00:03:09] Marshall Dodson: Right? You know, 7:00 is not leaving early.

[00:03:12] Josh Lowrey: You're not cheating the company.

[00:03:13] Marshall Dodson: Yeah, no. Yeah, no, and it will still be there tomorrow, you know?

[00:03:17] Josh Lowrey: There's always something to do.

[00:03:18] Marshall Dodson: There's always something to do- Well, and- ... and you can always work if you want to ...

[00:03:22] Josh Lowrey: as you've climbed and, and look, you've been with Key for how long?

[00:03:26] Marshall Dodson: 21 years.

[00:03:29] Josh Lowrey: It, again, it's not really-- This is not fluff. I d- I wonder the loyalty and the commitment and the work for Key, with Key.

[00:03:40] Josh Lowrey: Key doesn't look the same without Marshall over the last 21 years. There's-- I, I almost feel like you, you're like, "What needs to be done? I'll do it."

[00:03:46] Marshall Dodson: Yeah, no, it, it, it, it's been a, it's been an interesting time. Yeah. I've been through several cycles, a lot of different leaders, um, learned a lot of different things, and even going back before that with, with my [00:04:00] career, you know, worked with so many different people, and you learn good and you learn bad too.

[00:04:05] Marshall Dodson: Yeah. And it's a lot... I mean, I've made plenty of mistakes. Um, but it's a lot more fun to learn from other people's mistakes, um, than your own mistakes. Um, living through those kind of times, you, you, you just learn. Um, you know, when you're 25 or 35 and you, you know, or you, you need more experience, I don't really know what that means until you've got the scars.

[00:04:28] Josh Lowrey: Yeah.

[00:04:28] Marshall Dodson: Right? Until you've got the scars and you've got the perspective on what matters and what really doesn't matter, you know?

[00:04:35] Josh Lowrey: Well, I mean, again, you've, you've got some scars, but they're good scars at this point. I mean, it kind of-- that lends itself to... W- Can you give the audience... Um, this is the Caterpillar Podcast.

[00:04:43] Josh Lowrey: Mm-hmm. And they're-- Look, they are phenomenal partners on this show. They're-- They said, basically, "Interview anybody within the pipeline, anything within oil and gas." So they've given us a lot of creative freedom to kind of touch anything we want from technology, well servicing, frack, just whatever. Um, [00:05:00] and I would...

[00:05:01] Josh Lowrey: But so this is a pretty educated audience. Not pretty, this is a very educated audience for oil and gas, but do you mind just giving us, uh, the scoop on what Key Energy Services is?

[00:05:08] Marshall Dodson: Yeah. So, so today, um, we are a, uh, a well services company with workover rigs and then a full suite of ancillary equipment around the rig.

[00:05:19] Marshall Dodson: Um, so we have the, the rig itself as well as the blow preventer, accumulator, um, laydown machines, uh, what else? Pumps, all kinds of different pumps, um, big frack pumps, mud pumps, everything you need to do, everything needed to either, you know, drill out a four-mile lateral horizontal well, to drill out the plugs, to pulling rods and changing a pump on a five-barrel-a-day stripper well, which people haven't been doing, but hopefully with higher oil prices, that'll make sense to do that.

[00:05:50] Josh Lowrey: Okay.

[00:05:51] Marshall Dodson: Uh, over, over Key's history, we've been in just about every kind of service you can imagine. We've had frack, um, we've had wireline- Drilling ... we've had [00:06:00] drilling. Yeah. We've had Uh, vac trucks, fluid, saltwater disposal, and, you know, as I... When I took over Key, uh, Coiled Tubing, you know, I was very focused on getting us down to our core, right?

[00:06:13] Marshall Dodson: The, the economics in what we do are, are very challenging, and they have been for the past decade. Probably n- not as challenging, but still challenging before that. But, you know, if, if, if you're limited on human and financial capital, you need to focus at, at what you're best at. Mm-hmm. Right? And so it's just been a process of, you know, moving in and, and selling off and, and getting out of businesses that, that we're not known for, right?

[00:06:38] Marshall Dodson: When people in the oil field think of Key, workover rigs, right?

[00:06:42] Josh Lowrey: It is... It, it's incredible. So I'm gonna go back again to that first conversation coming back from London. I asked you, I said, "What would you tell me?" That... 'Cause I, I met you guys- Mm-hmm ... um, I met Key in '07 when I was selling drill pipe. You guys were in [00:07:00] that world- Yeah

[00:07:00] Josh Lowrey: at that time.

[00:07:01] Marshall Dodson: We, we still have tubulars, but yeah.

[00:07:02] Josh Lowrey: Oh, okay. Well, that... Well, I'm not the... I, I've since- Yeah. You're, you're out ... in '09 I left the, the tubular world. Um, it was a good run to be there, though. That was a fun time to be in that world. Um, and I... So I asked you in 2017, '18 timeframe, I said, "What would you like to be known?

[00:07:18] Josh Lowrey: Marshall, how would you like Key to be known?" And you said, "If I could just get people to think well service rig, anytime they think well service rig, they think Key."

[00:07:26] Marshall Dodson: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:27] Josh Lowrey: Is that still the case?

[00:07:27] Marshall Dodson: Yeah, that's definitely the case. Yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's really hard to, to really be great at a lot of things, you know?

[00:07:36] Marshall Dodson: And, and, uh, you know, there, there have been times Key's been the biggest, where we haven't been the biggest, where we are the biggest. I'm not interested in being the biggest. I wanna be the best.

[00:07:44] Josh Lowrey: Okay.

[00:07:45] Marshall Dodson: I wanna be the best, and I wanna have the best people doing the best work for our customers. Charge a premium price for that.

[00:07:51] Josh Lowrey: Sure.

[00:07:51] Marshall Dodson: But, uh, you know, it's, it's about being the best

[00:07:56] Josh Lowrey: Is it hard to get a premium price these days?

[00:07:58] Marshall Dodson: It's getting easier.

[00:07:59] Josh Lowrey: [00:08:00] Okay.

[00:08:00] Marshall Dodson: Um, you know, it's, it's always hard. Look, th- when you think about oil and gas companies and, and the way those organization... A, a, a third of an E&P company is geared to squeezing out vendors, right?

[00:08:14] Marshall Dodson: Like, supply chain organizations are huge, and they exist for l- logistics and everything- Right ... that needs to go. But they also, you know, really work to ensure that they are getting the best deal. Some lowest cost, some best value, so.

[00:08:30] Josh Lowrey: So audience, I wanna be very clear, there was no prep work here for Marshall.

[00:08:34] Josh Lowrey: And I'm ser- what's incredible and- But we

[00:08:37] Marshall Dodson: do, we, we can edit, right?

[00:08:38] Josh Lowrey: We can edit, but the- Yeah ... Oh, I love talking to myself. Caterpillar told me that they think I talk too much.

[00:08:44] Marshall Dodson: You don't talk too much.

[00:08:45] Josh Lowrey: Well, for the record, I like to talk.

[00:08:47] Marshall Dodson: Well, I know that.

[00:08:49] Josh Lowrey: I'm my favorite subject.

[00:08:50] Marshall Dodson: Yes. So. You should do your own, like, Josh and Josh podcast.

[00:08:52] Josh Lowrey: Yes. That's what I call it. You can interview yourself. Josh and Josh. Yeah. Josh, how you feeling today? Pretty good, Josh. Thanks for asking. So but what I, my point to [00:09:00] this, um, is it is incredible how this matches up to 2018. Like, everything you're saying today, this is not materially different than it was, what is eight, nine years ago now.

[00:09:13] Josh Lowrey: I just don't hear anything that's... Not only h- does this not sound different, I've actually watched you in those eight, nine years. Um, you keep mentioning people. I- we're gonna t- we're gonna touch on people for an extended period of time. Mm-hmm. Because I feel like, I feel like you've done a great job. What, what, is it Bob Chitwood?

[00:09:29] Marshall Dodson: Uh, Bob, yes.

[00:09:30] Josh Lowrey: Yes. Is he still with you guys?

[00:09:32] Marshall Dodson: No, Bob is retired now.

[00:09:33] Josh Lowrey: He retired, but he was with you guys a long time.

[00:09:34] Marshall Dodson: Oh, yeah. Bob, Bob was 50 years at Key.

[00:09:38] Josh Lowrey: Was he really?

[00:09:39] Marshall Dodson: If you, if you count... And, and there was, he, he, he, he could get it to 51 if he wanted to-

[00:09:44] Josh Lowrey: Yeah ...

[00:09:44] Marshall Dodson: with his-

[00:09:45] Josh Lowrey: With his math ...

[00:09:45] Marshall Dodson: with his first year, yeah.

[00:09:46] Marshall Dodson: Here's

[00:09:46] Josh Lowrey: where I was and here-

[00:09:47] Marshall Dodson: Yeah.

[00:09:48] Josh Lowrey: 50 years.

[00:09:49] Marshall Dodson: 50 years.

[00:09:49] Josh Lowrey: Man, that is a run.

[00:09:50] Marshall Dodson: Yeah. We've had, we just had a- another gentleman retire in the Permian Basin. He was 51 years.

[00:09:57] Josh Lowrey: With Key?

[00:09:58] Marshall Dodson: With K- and predecessor companies. Sure. Okay. [00:10:00] Key, Key's been around as Key for 46, 47 years.

[00:10:03] Josh Lowrey: Right.

[00:10:04] Marshall Dodson: So but it's, it, Key was a rollup, right?

[00:10:06] Josh Lowrey: Yeah.

[00:10:06] Marshall Dodson: It was 110 plus companies that made Key

[00:10:11] Josh Lowrey: All right. Well, hang on a minute. So we're gonna, we're gonna go into the people side of this real quick. What do you, what do you think the thread of 50 years ago to now, what's the common thread there?

[00:10:22] Marshall Dodson: So, i- i- th- this, this is a cyclical business, right? And it's a business that has been consolidated, deconsolidated...

[00:10:33] Marshall Dodson: Or not deconsolidated. I guess that's one way to put it. Where, where you have a lot of different market entrants come in. Um, you know, it's funny, I w- I was, I was thinking back, this was, uh... 'Cause, you know, for, for, for us, we, we did a, a bankruptcy in 2016.

[00:10:47] Josh Lowrey: Okay.

[00:10:48] Marshall Dodson: And coming out of that-

[00:10:49] Josh Lowrey: Alongside how many other companies?

[00:10:50] Marshall Dodson: Well, like, everybody. Yeah. Right? And, and another out of court restructuring in 2020, like most. Um, but- I

[00:10:56] Josh Lowrey: remember everything happening in 2020.

[00:10:57] Marshall Dodson: Yeah. Yeah. But, but a- as opposed to many of those [00:11:00] other companies, Key still around, right? Um, and I was thinking about a conversation I had with an investor. This was probably 2018, 2019, and we were talking about the, the woeful state of oilfield service, of well servicing, and he looks at me and he's like, "You know, industries can destroy capital for a decade before they finally kinda get together and, and get their act together."

[00:11:24] Marshall Dodson: And, uh, I remember thinking, and I probably said it out loud, "Oh, great. We're halfway through," right? But as I look at it today, we're, we're coming out of, you know, it's been about a decade. And the- And the numbers you just said ... the, the market has, uh, rationalized quite a bit, um, in terms of the number of players, uh, the booms and the busts.

[00:11:44] Marshall Dodson: Not everybody has made it through. Mm-hmm. Um, but-

[00:11:47] Josh Lowrey: Right size. I mean, you say rationalize- Yeah ... but you say right size as well. I mean, we're where we

[00:11:50] Marshall Dodson: need to be now? Yeah. And, and, and you've had a lot of attrition with the equipment. You know, I think- Mm ... we've, we've been cutting up all of our junky old rigs, and most of our [00:12:00] competitors have as well.

[00:12:00] Marshall Dodson: And so when I look at the market today, it's very different. And then the other dynamic is, you know, if you think back to 2016 to now, you had a shift going on where, you know, operators were moving to more horizontals and conventional plays, and they were slowly, uh, uh, exiting the, the traditional horizontal wells.

[00:12:23] Marshall Dodson: And so I think that shift has been kind of, kind of, uh, completed because the, the... in the cycles, the next peak after the, after the, the down cycle was never as high as the prior. Never as high as the prior. Mm-hmm. Never as high as the prior. Yeah. Um-

[00:12:39] Josh Lowrey: Yeah, the upticks were shorter.

[00:12:40] Marshall Dodson: Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, but I think, I think, you know, in, in, in our space and, and in services in general, I think the, the, the markets have gotten to the point through attrition to where the next peak is probably gonna be as high, right?

[00:12:52] Marshall Dodson: Like, we kinda bottomed as an industry, and I think we'll come to where we were. And when I look at the landscape of just more and more [00:13:00] wells, I think that the possibility's definitely there for a higher peak than last time.

[00:13:05] Josh Lowrey: So you're telling me that you are a believer in the reports that say that the, these, uh, the new wells that are gonna be drilled this, this next 12 months, whatever the number is, right?

[00:13:15] Josh Lowrey: That you think this next 12 months is gonna be pretty good for the industry?

[00:13:18] Marshall Dodson: Uh, I would say the next 18

[00:13:21] Josh Lowrey: 18 months.

[00:13:21] Marshall Dodson: Okay ... because, because when it, when it- You're

[00:13:22] Josh Lowrey: right. I forget where we are right now ...

[00:13:23] Marshall Dodson: yeah, you, you gotta remember we're, we're in the, in the somewhere in the we're having a gr- have an agreement tomorrow, oil prices are gonna drop like a rock.

[00:13:33] Marshall Dodson: Uh, the other side is it's gonna be $200 a barrel. Most people are just sitting back and saying, "I don't know what's gonna happen. I'm gonna wait."

[00:13:39] Josh Lowrey: So don't, don't leave. We're gonna come right back to that here, um, the next day. I'm gonna put 18 months on this, but how long have you actually been in the oil and gas business?

[00:13:48] Josh Lowrey: 21 at Key.

[00:13:49] Marshall Dodson: Oh, I was at a company called Dynegy, um, which was a, a, a... We had power generation. We had gas trading.

[00:13:55] Josh Lowrey: Yeah.

[00:13:56] Marshall Dodson: Um, so I had a, a stint on the trading side and with power gen, [00:14:00] which is a fascinating space, was then- Yeah, absolutely ... is even more fascinating today. Um, and then prior to that I was with Arthur Andersen in Arthur Andersen in Houston.

[00:14:08] Marshall Dodson: When I started there you could do oil and gas and everything else, so it was oil and gas.

[00:14:14] Josh Lowrey: So the reason I'm asking that is the way you just kind of described the next 18 months, one day you're doing this, one... Like, that sounds almost violent. It's very violent. Yeah.

[00:14:25] Marshall Dodson: Like, there are very few industries where, you know, for most consumer products, most mature industries, if you get a 2% drop in, 2 or 3% drop in revenues year on year, that can be catastrophic, right?

[00:14:37] Marshall Dodson: Mm-hmm. Like, that's big. 50%, 25%, yeah, whatever, right? Yeah. Like, that's- The

[00:14:42] Josh Lowrey: whole team's

[00:14:43] Marshall Dodson: gone. Yeah. Up,

[00:14:43] Josh Lowrey: up- 5%, right?

[00:14:44] Marshall Dodson: Yeah. Yeah. Up, down 25, 30, 50%, you know, that's, that's this industry. Man. Which-

[00:14:51] Josh Lowrey: What is it like leading in that kind of environment?

[00:14:54] Marshall Dodson: You know, you, you have to- Man ... uh, you- you're kinda always looking for [00:15:00] when the shoe's gonna drop, right?

[00:15:01] Marshall Dodson: Like, I, I can remember, I have a good friend and, and one of the up cycles, he, uh, he started, uh, he started a man camp in South Texas.

[00:15:11] Josh Lowrey: Okay.

[00:15:11] Marshall Dodson: And, um, you know, he's talking to me about this and how great it's gonna be and, and, you know, all the, the contracts he was getting and, a- and I was like, "Jeff, just one thing."

[00:15:21] Marshall Dodson: I said, "Do not sign a contract that commits you. Do not sign a contract you can't get out of," 'cause when it turns off- Mm ... the lights go out, and you're stuck holding the bag on all those contracts. And then a couple years later, guess what happened?

[00:15:32] Josh Lowrey: The lights-

[00:15:33] Marshall Dodson: The lights go out.

[00:15:33] Josh Lowrey: Was he not an oil and gas guy before

[00:15:35] Marshall Dodson: then?

[00:15:35] Marshall Dodson: Mm-mm. No.

[00:15:35] Josh Lowrey: Oh.

[00:15:36] Marshall Dodson: And, and he came to me afterwards. He was like, "Thank you. That was the best advice I've ever gotten," because one day it was full, the next day it wasn't, and, uh, it was like, "But I have a contract with you," and, and the, the oil company was like, "Yeah, and?"

[00:15:49] Josh Lowrey: Come get it.

[00:15:49] Marshall Dodson: Yeah.

[00:15:50] Josh Lowrey: Yeah.

[00:15:50] Marshall Dodson: And, and so- We

[00:15:51] Josh Lowrey: can outlast you.

[00:15:52] Marshall Dodson: Yeah. So, uh, yeah, he, he, uh, he, he, he made it through and didn't lose it all again [00:16:00] because he didn't have any contracts.

[00:16:01] Josh Lowrey: You know- He was, he was tied to them ... my dad described it slightly different. He said, "Hiring people's easy."

[00:16:06] Marshall Dodson: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:06] Josh Lowrey: He's like, "Firing people is hard."

[00:16:08] Marshall Dodson: Well, and, and you get-

[00:16:09] Josh Lowrey: He's talking about emotionally, quite honestly.

[00:16:10] Marshall Dodson: Yeah.

[00:16:11] Josh Lowrey: Yeah.

[00:16:11] Marshall Dodson: You, you get, you know, it, it's like every hire we make over kind of the, the low point, in the back of your mind, it's like, "This may be someone I have to, I have to cut when it goes down." Wow. Exactly. Do I really need that? Yeah. Can I, can I do something else? Can I reallocate the work? Can I think of a different way to do it to keep my, my fixed costs down, right?

[00:16:30] Marshall Dodson: Because you never know when it's gonna turn down. Yeah. So-

[00:16:32] Josh Lowrey: Exactly ...

[00:16:33] Marshall Dodson: so you have to be as lean in the, in the best of times as you are in the worst of times.

[00:16:38] Josh Lowrey: All right. So this is- David Drode can't do this. I'm going back to my question then.

[00:16:42] Marshall Dodson: Okay.

[00:16:43] Josh Lowrey: Um, your 18 months question. So now that you think we are in a middle of an 18-month uptick here, and you feel like where are we in that stage?

[00:16:51] Josh Lowrey: Oh, we're- Still violent.

[00:16:52] Marshall Dodson: Yeah, no. We're, we're, we're early, early days, right? Like, you know, remember this is, we're what? June?

[00:16:59] Josh Lowrey: Yep.

[00:16:59] Marshall Dodson: [00:17:00] And, uh, the bombs started dropping in March, right? And so-

[00:17:04] Josh Lowrey: By the way, he means actual bombs, not just bad news bombs.

[00:17:06] Marshall Dodson: Yeah, yeah. No, this is the Strait of Hormuz is closed. Okay. Like as of now, we're in this weird, oh, we're gonna have a peace deal tomorrow.

[00:17:13] Marshall Dodson: Yeah. Crude craters, yet everybody's saying, "Oh, we're gonna run out. It's gonna be $200." Nobody has any idea.

[00:17:19] Josh Lowrey: Right.

[00:17:20] Marshall Dodson: Um, but you know, we, we... with what we do at Short Cycle Barrels, right? Like work over maintenance, that kinda thing. So as we moved into April, May, phone started ringing. Okay. Really within the past month, kinda mid-May to now, um, the phone started ringing.

[00:17:37] Marshall Dodson: We had to go from, from, you know, defense when oil was 50 bucks to offense now. Um, got a big hiring event in Midland tomorrow, which unfortunately I can't make. Um, but it, it's, it's that pivot, you know, within 30 days, right? You know, what are we gonna do? How are we gonna get more rigs out? How are we gonna, you know, do this?

[00:17:57] Marshall Dodson: It's, it's, it's challenging, which means you have to, you [00:18:00] has to just have to stay lean. Um, but I, I am of the opinion that we're not going back to $50, right? And, and that we're gonna be at a, at a reasonable price for this industry for, you know, at least the next couple years.

[00:18:17] Josh Lowrey: I like that term short cycle barrel.

[00:18:19] Josh Lowrey: I feel like that benefits a company like you tremendously.

[00:18:22] Marshall Dodson: Mm-hmm. We are.

[00:18:23] Josh Lowrey: Yeah.

[00:18:23] Marshall Dodson: Um, you know, work over maintenance can be some of the best return dollars in E&P spends- Mm ... in terms of, you know, cash, and then we get their money back and make a return on it. The problem is it, it's a, a lot of it is not the big, you know, thousand barrel a day well, right?

[00:18:40] Marshall Dodson: Like it's 100 a, 100 barrel a day well or 50. You

[00:18:43] Josh Lowrey: win

[00:18:43] Marshall Dodson: games with base hits too. So it takes, it takes a lot. Yeah. Yeah. And, and moderating decline is, is something that's very important And then as, as I look out and think about, you know, all the oil that's left in place with all of these, uh, uh, unconventional wells, you know, [00:19:00] someone will figure out how to go back in and get that, right?

[00:19:02] Marshall Dodson: If you, if you think- 100% ... if you think it's, they're getting, I've heard 6, I've heard 10% of the oil out, right? I, I, I have no doubt that there's not an engineer somewhere that is figuring out, how do I get it to 15? How do I get it to, to 20, right? Correct. And that's massive volume.

[00:19:19] Josh Lowrey: Absolutely. I... That is...

[00:19:21] Josh Lowrey: Audience, I mean, this is... We're not going out on, you know, real thin branches here, but what he just said, I believe, is such an opportunity for when people talk about what's next. Mm-hmm. That... N- you know, data, we're gonna talk data centers and all that stuff, but gr- gathering and capturing the trapped oil and gas-

[00:19:39] Marshall Dodson: Yeah

[00:19:40] Josh Lowrey: that they think is... They've... Well, we already got that. It's a declining, it's, you know, we're on the wherever we are on the tail here, let's go to the next one type stuff, 'cause look, they have shareholders that they have to report to as well.

[00:19:48] Marshall Dodson: You, you th- you think about, like, when I first started at Key in 2005 and I made my first trip out to the Permian Basin, there were hardly any drilling rigs going, [00:20:00] right?

[00:20:00] Marshall Dodson: It was a mature basin. Um, you know, but everybody figured out, how do I squeeze the last drop of hydrocarbons out of this well, right? Like, that was the, the easy money was, was years ago. Yeah. And then it was, you know- Yeah, put the straw in ... really technical engineering. How do I get the last drop out of this well?

[00:20:17] Marshall Dodson: And, and we're early days in that, you know?

[00:20:19] Josh Lowrey: I remember 2000 and Six, seven, eight, probably seven. Um, you know, we're... My family's been in fracking pretty much the whole time, and I went to a conference and they were talking about this is what's gonna change what you just said.

[00:20:37] Marshall Dodson: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:38] Josh Lowrey: And they were talking about shale and fracking, and we were selling fluid ends at that time, but nobody really knew it 'cause we were...

[00:20:44] Josh Lowrey: It was quiet. It was in Fort Worth. That's one of the only two places. Yeah. We were... Everybody

[00:20:46] Marshall Dodson: was fracking conventional wells. It was just to open up the zone. It wasn't what we were doing

[00:20:50] Josh Lowrey: now. But those were different types of fracs, right? Yeah. Yeah. And that wasn't the high pressure stuff that they were using today.

[00:20:55] Josh Lowrey: Um, and I will never forget a guy from the Middle East was at this conference and, you know, it was kind of [00:21:00] Q&A, uh, and he stands up and he's like, "You guys are lying. You're doing this 'cause that's about..." Oh, I know when it was. It was 2000, uh, seven, eight when the prices were going to $104 a barrel.

[00:21:08] Marshall Dodson: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:09] Josh Lowrey: He's like... He goes, he goes, "We think this is all propaganda to pressure us to pump more oil out of the Middle East." He's like, "You're not gonna find this much gas that you think you are here in the States with, with quote, unquote, 'shale.'" And I'm like, "I don't know, man. I, I feel like they're about to find a..."

[00:21:26] Josh Lowrey: And that sure enough, again, I know... I'm sure there were other people in the room that were like, "This guy doesn't really understand what's coming their way, w- how much competition the US is about to be," 'cause we weren't competitors. No. We were importers.

[00:21:38] Marshall Dodson: Yeah. No, it, you know, I mean, the, the Cheniere facility was, was to import, not to export.

[00:21:43] Marshall Dodson: Yeah. Right? Which was a great pivot to be able to export.

[00:21:45] Josh Lowrey: Yeah.

[00:21:46] Marshall Dodson: We got tons of gas.

[00:21:47] Josh Lowrey: Tons of gas. Well, um- What am I missing here bef- 'cause I wanna talk about you, you briefly talked about your hiring event.

[00:21:57] Marshall Dodson: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:58] Josh Lowrey: Um, [00:22:00] I, I believe you're a, you- would you describe yourself as a boots on the ground CEO?

[00:22:04] Marshall Dodson: I, I, I have been described as a boots on the ground CEO.

[00:22:07] Josh Lowrey: Okay.

[00:22:07] Marshall Dodson: I, I tend to think of it more that's where the people are, that's where I should be, right? Like, there's, we've got, you know, 1,500-ish people and less than 50 in Houston. So, you know, the action's out there, right? And, and the, I've, I'm a, I'm a big believer in the, uh, what do the books call it? Management by walking around.

[00:22:27] Josh Lowrey: Yeah.

[00:22:27] Marshall Dodson: Right? Like, eyes on to, to, to see what's really going on. Um, because you can't fix what you don't see. And, uh, I've, I've, I've given this, I've, I've said this before, but I'll, I'll repeat it. Um, it was on somebody else's podcast. But, but when I, when I, when I, uh, I'll never forget, I, I, I got promoted to vice president.

[00:22:49] Marshall Dodson: Okay. I was at Dynagene. And, uh, told my parents and they're like, "Great, let's go have dinner." We go to dinner and my dad's like, "Ha ha, you're a mushroom now." And I was like, "What do you mean, Dad?" And he's like, [00:23:00] "Well, you're, you're kept in the dark and fed BS," right? Which is how they grow mushrooms, right? And, and it's very true that, you know, the, the, the higher you get up the ladder, the further you are away, and everything you get is filtered.

[00:23:14] Marshall Dodson: Not, not, not even necessarily consciously, right? Mm-hmm. But no one wants to, to, to give the raw- Right ... details of, of what's going on. And, and so, uh, I, I, I like to look, see, feel, touch here, right? And you know you have to take it with a grain of salt, right? And, and, and do it in a way that is not stepping on or over your managers, but doing it in a way so you, you get the raw, unvarnished truth of, of what's happening.

[00:23:40] Josh Lowrey: Well, I hope I'm not I don't think I am with this story, you know, telling untold stories. But we were out in, uh, Midland for the barbecue. Mm-hmm. And it was the day, I guess probably the day before the barbecue, so we were kind of everyone sitting, um, at the restaurant across from the hotel, and you and I were the [00:24:00] only two at this one table kind of waiting on some people to show up.

[00:24:02] Josh Lowrey: And it was, you know, called 6:00 PM, happy hour type thing, and all of a sudden these two guys came up and they said, uh, "Mr. Dotson?" And you looked at them, you're like, "Yeah." They go, "I'm so-and-so, and I'm so-and-so. We work for you here in..." And they go, "We just started, but we recognize you." And, and it was very clear that Marshall Dotson had become Mr.

[00:24:24] Josh Lowrey: Dotson instantly. Like, like the, the... You weren't, you, I mean, you were still genuine. You were- Yeah ... you weren't anybody different, but you're, you turn, you start talking to these guys, and you were two or three minutes into it and I realized this is not gonna be a three-minute conversation. Like, you were, "Where are you guys from?

[00:24:38] Josh Lowrey: What do you do? How'd you get here? When did we start?" Mm-hmm. "How do we train?" And I'm like, oh man, this is not- He's not asking peripheral questions here. Like, he's wanting to know-

[00:24:48] Marshall Dodson: Yeah ...

[00:24:48] Josh Lowrey: are you guys doing your job? Cool. How can I help you? What is going on? And I just, I ended up walking away, and you were with these guys for 15, 20 minutes.

[00:24:54] Marshall Dodson: Yeah.

[00:24:55] Josh Lowrey: And I, and I thought two things. Number one, how quickly you checked into these guys, which was awesome, 'cause... [00:25:00] And my second thought was, with 1,500 employees, you, you really can't be off.

[00:25:06] Marshall Dodson: No. No. And, and, and it's exhausting. Yes. I, I, I can re- I... You know, you wouldn't think talking to people wears you out, but it does.

[00:25:12] Marshall Dodson: You know that.

[00:25:13] Josh Lowrey: Yeah. Well,

[00:25:13] Marshall Dodson: yeah. Um, 'cause you gotta be on point. But, but I'll ask you this. Like, when was the last time you applied for a job at Upright to see what that's like, right? Or any one of the companies you have to see what that experience is like, right? Mm-hmm. Is it hard to apply and get a job there?

[00:25:26] Marshall Dodson: Did somebody call you back, um, you know, if you used a fake name, which I've done occasionally. Um, but-

[00:25:33] Josh Lowrey: That's a great... To see if you're gonna call back.

[00:25:35] Marshall Dodson: Yeah, see if they call me back. See, see, see, see, see if I get a return call. Um-

[00:25:39] Josh Lowrey: Did you get a return call?

[00:25:40] Marshall Dodson: Yeah, I did.

[00:25:41] Josh Lowrey: Good.

[00:25:41] Marshall Dodson: Eventually. The f- We've, we've got a good process now.

[00:25:44] Marshall Dodson: Okay. But we had some, some pretty weak systems initially. Okay. Um, but yeah, no, I, I... You know, the, the, the other analogy I'll, I'll say is that the further you get up the ladder, the harder it is to see what the experience is at the bottom. And that experience at the bottom, those are your [00:26:00] front line. Those are the people at Key interacting with our customers.

[00:26:03] Marshall Dodson: Those are the people- Yeah ... that, that, that we expect to, to, to follow the process, to work safely and do a great job. Um, but if you're not, if you don't feel valued as you come through, you know, how do you, what do you think about that company, and how does that make you buy into what they want you to do, right?

[00:26:20] Marshall Dodson: So yeah, I've, I have a pl- I've gone in at keyenergyjobs.com, filled it out, right? Um-

[00:26:26] Josh Lowrey: Well, I mean, that's, that's a job aspect of it, but it... You're very big on safety.

[00:26:30] Marshall Dodson: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:31] Josh Lowrey: You do videos, you do... You know, you're engaging. I've seen, you know, there's, there's new technologies today, whether they're GPS tracking, cameras in the cars.

[00:26:38] Josh Lowrey: Um, these aren't for Big Brother.

[00:26:42] Marshall Dodson: No.

[00:26:42] Josh Lowrey: You know, I don't care what you're talking about, right? I, I care that you're focused on the road. And I've seen people engage, you know, not necessarily from Key, but just other companies with a Marshall Dotson thread And it's like, "Hey, good luck with that Big Brother type thing."

[00:26:56] Josh Lowrey: And you're like, "Well, actually..."

[00:26:57] Marshall Dodson: Yeah, you just explain why. Yeah. That's [00:27:00] right. Explain why. Like, it, it's not there to spy on you. You know, don't care what... Well, do care what you're doing in the car. Right. But if you sit in the, in the truck and eat lunch, nobody's gonna watch you. But, you know, driving is one where we've, we've been, you know...

[00:27:13] Marshall Dodson: No one brings bad habits of nippling up a BOP to the oil field, right? But we all bring bad habits of driving. And so how do we break bad habits? It's through constant coach and correction, right? Being mindful of it and then making adjustments because like, it's, it's, it's, it's hard enough worrying about your own employees getting hurt on location, but when you worry about your employees hurting someone else-

[00:27:36] Josh Lowrey: Right

[00:27:36] Marshall Dodson: right, you know, big human element to that, also a big financial element to that because we don't make that much money, so.

[00:27:43] Josh Lowrey: Have you seen your, uh, activities de- I mean, has there been improvement?

[00:27:48] Marshall Dodson: Oh, it's been, it's been huge improvement.

[00:27:49] Josh Lowrey: Really?

[00:27:49] Marshall Dodson: Yeah. No, it's, it's been phenomenal. I mean, we, you know, we actually, we were able to have our, uh, the, the deductible [00:28:00] reduced at Key, right?

[00:28:01] Marshall Dodson: And this is a company that, you know, uh, we, we, uh, you know, I, I've been chewed out by, uh, many, many people in London for, uh, you know- ... derailing trains or, you know, having

[00:28:13] Josh Lowrey: an earth quake. I'm not laughing at that part. I'm laughing, I under- I know the, the hint. That's great.

[00:28:15] Marshall Dodson: Yeah. Yeah. But, but no, we've, we've had such a great track record, and we've been at it for, like, three years now.

[00:28:20] Marshall Dodson: And people, when I, when we first started doing it, I'd ask people, "What do you think about the cameras? What do you think?" They're, "God, I have a..." You know, they would complain. I'm like, "Look, we're not doing sound. We're only watching." And, and now when I ask, uh, and always do, "What do you think of the cameras in the truck?"

[00:28:35] Marshall Dodson: And they're like, "You know, I, I, I actually find myself driving the speed limit, stopping at stop signs when I'm off work too." Nice. I had one guy say he was driving along and his wife was like, "Why are you driving so slow?" He's like, "I'm going the speed limit," you know?

[00:28:50] Josh Lowrey: It is an amazing thing where, you know, if you get on a Facebook neighbor page and just people complain, which is my favorite thing to do.

[00:28:59] Josh Lowrey: I, I [00:29:00] like to go on Facebook Marketplace and just low-bid everything, and then see what my neighbors are complaining about. But, you know, there was somebody complaining about why does everybody back in in Houston? And my im- immediate thought was 'cause 60% of these people work for oil and gas companies. Mm.

[00:29:15] Josh Lowrey: And they've been trained to back in.

[00:29:16] Marshall Dodson: It, it's also easier to park a pickup truck that way.

[00:29:18] Josh Lowrey: Well, fair

[00:29:19] Marshall Dodson: too. But, but yeah, that was, uh ... You know, I, I, I do a lot of, uh, social media posts and, and kinda talk about all the things we have going on, but my biggest LinkedIn post, which ha- had over 50,000 views, um, I, uh, I was walking to the courtyard in Odessa from the restaurant across the parking lot by myself as I do many times.

[00:29:41] Marshall Dodson: And, and I look out and I see an entire row of white trucks backed in with one pulled in, uh, front... You know, pull- pulled in. And so I to- I took a picture and I said, "Who's not in the oil field in Odessa?"

[00:29:56] Josh Lowrey: Correct. I

[00:29:57] Marshall Dodson: mean, that was, that was so fun.

[00:29:59] Josh Lowrey: This [00:30:00] guy doesn't work for us.

[00:30:00] Marshall Dodson: Yeah. Yeah. He, he obviously is not oil field because everybody else is.

[00:30:03] Marshall Dodson: Isn't

[00:30:04] Josh Lowrey: that crazy?

[00:30:04] Marshall Dodson: Yeah.

[00:30:04] Josh Lowrey: They just, they know it.

[00:30:06] Marshall Dodson: You just, you just get in the habit.

[00:30:08] Josh Lowrey: Um, we're g- I wanna go to talk about technology here in a minute, but I've got a couple things here. I'm gonna let you... This is choose your own adventure. Would you like to talk about the future of well servicing, energy ma- demand and the bigger picture, which is kind of cool 'cause- Mm-hmm

[00:30:21] Josh Lowrey: your short psych, um, or the energy perspective? Which, what would you like to talk about there? I- See how great this podcast is? Yeah, freeform. Thad doesn't do that. Yeah. He shoves it down your throat. Yeah. He's like, "We're..." No, this is... Welcome to this podcast. Yeah. Thank you, Caterpillar.

[00:30:34] Marshall Dodson: Yeah, thank you, Caterpillar.

[00:30:35] Marshall Dodson: This is awesome. Thank you for the great engines we used too. Um-

[00:30:38] Josh Lowrey: Ooh, this guy's smooth.

[00:30:39] Marshall Dodson: The, uh... What were those again? Just- Yeah ... what, pi- pick one.

[00:30:43] Josh Lowrey: Well, I, I feel like I know the future well servicing really does sound pretty good, kind of what I've heard. Yeah, no. It sounds, it sounds domestic-centered. It- It sounds like there's...

[00:30:51] Josh Lowrey: If you have the quality product on demand and you can do a g- a good job, then a good well servicing company is gonna be in a good situation. You'll always need well servicing. Y-

[00:30:59] Marshall Dodson: you [00:31:00] will always need well servicing. Okay. Whether or not you make money doing it, that's the- That's on you ... that's the, that's the challenge.

[00:31:04] Marshall Dodson: Right. Right? You know, our... When, when I, uh, when I look at, you know, like going back 10 years ago, um, if we had, uh, called them yards then, not districts, but if we had yards where the cost of labor was at 35% of revenue, we'd look at shutting it down, right? Like, it w- it was, you know... These economics are whacked.

[00:31:28] Marshall Dodson: We're obviously not making a return on, on the equipment. We need to shut it down and move the... Today, if we get that at 50%, we're doing high fives, right? And so our price per hour that we charge a customer is about the same as it was, uh, 10 years ago in most basins, and, and the, the, the inflation and the cost has just destroyed the returns.

[00:31:51] Marshall Dodson: We're all, we're all doing fine because every company in this business has, has either been through bankruptcy and written down their equipment like we have- Yeah ... or they bought it out of bankruptcy- [00:32:00] Mm ... or a distressed situation. So GAAP earnings, yeah, you're, you're, you're... You got PBT. Yeah. Um, but cash and, and the, the, the earning a return on the capital invested, nowhere near

[00:32:12] Josh Lowrey: What is PBT?

[00:32:14] Marshall Dodson: Uh, profit before tax Peanut

[00:32:14] Josh Lowrey: butter toast? What is it?

[00:32:15] Marshall Dodson: Profit before tax Oh. We got, you got EBITDA, adjusted EBITDA, PBT, PAT, net income. We-

[00:32:21] Josh Lowrey: Peanut butter toast ...

[00:32:22] Marshall Dodson: yeah, we got all kinds of acronyms.

[00:32:23] Josh Lowrey: Uh, this is not the financial podcast Okay. Sorry That's, we- that's our John Daniel podcast.

[00:32:28] Marshall Dodson: Okay.

[00:32:28] Josh Lowrey: Yeah. Um, we have something for everyone.

[00:32:32] Josh Lowrey: Have you been on the John and... with John and Bill yet?

[00:32:34] Marshall Dodson: I have. I have.

[00:32:34] Josh Lowrey: They're great.

[00:32:35] Marshall Dodson: Yeah.

[00:32:35] Josh Lowrey: My favorite thing that John and Bill do, no introduction. Just camera's on, "Marshall, question number one."

[00:32:44] Marshall Dodson: Yeah.

[00:32:45] Josh Lowrey: Oh. And, and I'm like, "John." I go, "Give the audience something."

[00:32:49] Marshall Dodson: Yeah. He's

[00:32:50] Josh Lowrey: like- 'Cause you- ... "No, I don't..." I, by the way, we, I love, I couldn't love John more.

[00:32:54] Marshall Dodson: We do. No, he's, he's awesome. He's amazing, but I, I gotta tell you, after, you know, a- almost 10 years as a public [00:33:00] company CFO- Yeah ... you, you get- You're used to- ... immune to that kind of thing. You sit down at a table, there's no perfunctories. It's, "Well, you said this, and margins," and, and, you know, you can't answer the question because they're asking you for, you know, non-public.

[00:33:11] Marshall Dodson: So you gotta- ... say what you wanna say and-

[00:33:14] Josh Lowrey: Kinda work- Yeah ... work your way around it.

[00:33:15] Marshall Dodson: Yeah.

[00:33:15] Josh Lowrey: So I, my other joke recently, and I don't know if this is a joke, nobody wants to go have dinner with me anymore because I talk about nothing but AI and peptides. That's it. Those are my two subjects these days. We are not gonna go down the peptide rab- rabbit hole here Thank you

[00:33:29] Josh Lowrey: um, but by your answer, I'll be talking to you about that later now that you say that. Um, and secondly, AI. AI. Data, call it... I'm saying AI as kind of all-inclusive. It's a joke that I say, but really, data centers, power behind the meter, the grid, that world is changing. It, it's, my other kind of comment that I say to people is that nothing has benefited oil and gas more than TikTok, and what I mean by that is- If oil and gas companies would've said to the US [00:34:00] consumer, "We're gonna need more energy for lights"

[00:34:03] Marshall Dodson: Mm-hmm

[00:34:03] Josh Lowrey: they'd have been like, "You make too much money. You're not... You get nothing more." They would've helped. You'd have gotten no support. Instead, they were like, "We're... I want more videos on my phone, and I wanna post immediately from anywhere in, in the world, and without a hiccup." And because it's social media, it's kind of a clean, innocent thing, and California needs it so bad.

[00:34:23] Josh Lowrey: I feel like energy and oil and gas companies are just getting this wave of kind of help from other industries for the first time in a long time.

[00:34:29] Marshall Dodson: I, I, I agree. I mean, I, I think we have w- w- our, our industry has a bad rap and... or, or has historically. And if you think about it, no one begrudges the $1,000 phone that you have, right?

[00:34:44] Marshall Dodson: And you think about everything we buy, prices, all that kind of stuff, but almost every person in the United States goes to the, goes to the gas station every week, every other week, and fills up, and you see that price, and you have to have that fuel.

[00:34:57] Josh Lowrey: Correct.

[00:34:58] Marshall Dodson: You cannot get by without [00:35:00] that fuel. And so they're, they're...

[00:35:02] Marshall Dodson: A, becomes like a sense of almost entitlement. Like, why is it going up, right? Like, it, it comes from the pump, right? Why is it... Why, why are- Right. I flipped the switch ... why am I being charged more? I flipped it up and, and, you know, held it down. Why am I being charged more, right? With- without any idea of the capital that was risked to go find that and to deliver it to them amazingly so cheap.

[00:35:25] Marshall Dodson: Um, so I think, I think that the, the, the demand on the power side, which is, we all know, the only way to meet that demand is with gas and gas turbines and all the different technologies around that. Everything else is intermittent or too far off. Um, but yeah, it, it puts us in more of a hero seat for now.

[00:35:44] Josh Lowrey: Correct.

[00:35:44] Marshall Dodson: Um, but, you know, we'll see. You

[00:35:46] Josh Lowrey: say for now. Yeah Okay. That, that lends another question. Are you one of these, and I don't mean to say it like that, are you of the AI is a bubble person, or are you of the we're on the beginning of a, of a, indu- an AI [00:36:00] revolu- data revolution mentality? So,

[00:36:01] Marshall Dodson: so, so the application of AI, not a bubble.

[00:36:06] Marshall Dodson: Okay. Right? Real value creation possibility. I question the capital going into the data centers, right? Like I, I just step back and, and I look and I, and I see a capital, I see capital just running after these returns, right? To create what is ultimately a commodity, right? The compute is a commodity, right?

[00:36:26] Marshall Dodson: Mm. Like different chips, you know, different configurations, data centers. I'm moving my hands and I feel trapped. Um, but, uh- You look great.

[00:36:33] Josh Lowrey: No one can see. But,

[00:36:34] Marshall Dodson: uh- They better be watching ... you know, a- a- and you think about that, and you think about all the other capital booms that we've had, right? When you look historically, you've got a land rush going on.

[00:36:46] Marshall Dodson: You've got everybody tripping over themselves to build these data centers, right? And you think about shale, right? Everybody was, the returns will come. Production is what matters. Get it, get it, get it. The returns will come. [00:37:00] When you, when you think about my days at Donahue with gas-fired power gen, right?

[00:37:04] Marshall Dodson: Get it, the returns will come. We've got a PowerPoint that shows it's gonna be X in 10 years. Okay, great. Um, a little bit different with the fiber optic cable and the boom that, that led to that. Um, but you can go back to the cattle industry and all the money that was raised and flooded that, that ultimately collapsed it because you're producing a commodity.

[00:37:23] Marshall Dodson: So I don't question AI, I don't question the value, uh, proposition on that, but I question how much of the value is gonna be captured In the data centers, right? In the data centers. And, and how much of the value's gonna be captured by the software versus the use of the software? And I think people today are putting a lot of value on that into the agents themselves and the softwares themselves.

[00:37:45] Marshall Dodson: That's not where the value's created. The value's created in companies. And so when you think about how much money am I gonna spend on tokens to get X output, right? That hasn't really been solved for, right? So, so I've, I've got a lot of questions on the [00:38:00] economics, uh, but none on the utility. I mean, we're, we're, we're doing some things with AI.

[00:38:06] Marshall Dodson: We've seen, you know... And, and I don't mean just making, like, funny pictures in ChatGPT, right? Mm-hmm. Which is fun, but if you think about it, um, you know, that's- that's all great at, what is it, like $10 a month, $15 a month? Yeah. Depends, yeah. $150 a month? Are you, are you, are, is, are people spending that to make funny dog videos?

[00:38:25] Marshall Dodson: No.

[00:38:25] Josh Lowrey: Well, yeah, you're talking about the individual, and-

[00:38:27] Marshall Dodson: Right ... we have a- But, but, but it's, it's the same thing with if I spend $100,000 a year on tokens to replace my admin, am I really better off doing that? Or would I rather have a person? Like, where's that break even on some things? I think, I think AI today is excellent at math and excellent at coding and things like that.

[00:38:49] Marshall Dodson: It's a lot harder to apply it to different things, at least in my experience so far.

[00:38:54] Josh Lowrey: No, I don't think you're far off. You say different things. I mean, really, I'm gonna tighten that up a little bit to [00:39:00] say wh- I, 'cause I think you're saying i- into an applicable use case for your company.

[00:39:05] Marshall Dodson: Mm-hmm. So, so you, you brought up Bob Chitwood.

[00:39:08] Marshall Dodson: Um, you know, I had a, a, a vision a while back. Um, it was like, wouldn't it be great if we could create a voice-to-text tool so that every, uh, work plan at Key was done in essence with Bob Chitwood standing there? And so, uh, we set out to create a, uh, basically a, a work planning tool, uh, somewhat of a reference, and we call it Ask Bob, right?

[00:39:35] Marshall Dodson: So, yeah. I love

[00:39:36] Josh Lowrey: it.

[00:39:36] Marshall Dodson: Yeah. And it's got like the little logo app kind of looks like Bob. Um-

[00:39:39] Josh Lowrey: I bet he, I bet he loved that, by the way. Eh,

[00:39:41] Marshall Dodson: I probably should tell him about it. Um, I'm kidding. I've told him about the name. Um, but, uh, you know, it, it, it sounds easy, right? Like, oh, you just load all your stuff in there and it gives you an answer.

[00:39:52] Marshall Dodson: No, it's not, because, um, it want... Most of the agents out there, most of it wants to please, right? [00:40:00] And so it, it will try to find an answer. And so getting everything right, because we're talking about people's lives. Yeah. Right? Like, it's high-risk stuff, and if, a- and if it doesn't ask the right questions, if it doesn't stop and say, "Wait, I don't have enough information to answer that-"

[00:40:14] Josh Lowrey: Yeah,

[00:40:15] Marshall Dodson: we can't let, we can't have a fake answer here

[00:40:15] Marshall Dodson: "let me ask follow on." And l- yeah, and there's tons of fake answers- Yeah ... we were getting initially. And so it's been really, it's taken a lot of effort to train it. We're probably a couple months away from launching it. Um, but even nothing off the shelf gets, you know, text me Spanish, right? Which is, which is not-

[00:40:34] Josh Lowrey: Spanglish.

[00:40:35] Marshall Dodson: Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and, and, uh, you know what, in, in the oil field, everything should have, has multiple names, right? Wells have multiple names. Every tool we has a- Right ... multiple names. They have multiple names in English and Spanish, right? And, and getting through all of that has been challenging, and that's, that's just reps, right?

[00:40:52] Marshall Dodson: Um, but

[00:40:53] Josh Lowrey: I- I, I love that little... That's one of those things where The only [00:41:00] carnal knowledge can tell you that

[00:41:01] Marshall Dodson: Mm-hmm ...

[00:41:02] Josh Lowrey: what you just said.

[00:41:03] Marshall Dodson: Yeah. '

[00:41:03] Josh Lowrey: Cause I can say, "I, I can fix your AI." I- my thing understands Spanish. N- not this Spanish.

[00:41:08] Marshall Dodson: No, not, not this Spanish where, where you say something to me in Spanish, I say something back to you in English.

[00:41:13] Marshall Dodson: Back, yes. I give you two English words and a Spanish word. Yes. Like, it struggles with that, and like we, you know, our guys in New Mexico, which is part of the Permian Basin, have a different word for a BOP than the Spanish word for a BOP in West Texas, which is different than South Texas, right? And so we gotta capture all that.

[00:41:28] Marshall Dodson: Yeah. And so it- it's, it's just time and, and getting reps at the system. Um, but it's not that easy.

[00:41:35] Josh Lowrey: My favorite is when you go to New Mexico and they start talking about the Permian, and they're like, "Well, you know East Texas, East Texas." And I'm like, East Texas? This doesn't make... What are they talking about?

[00:41:44] Josh Lowrey: Well, they're talking about east of New Mexico.

[00:41:46] Marshall Dodson: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:46] Josh Lowrey: And it took me... I mean, you know, you click in, but you... Every single time they would say something, and I'd be like, they're talking about West Texas. They're not talking about- They're

[00:41:53] Marshall Dodson: not talking about the Haynesville.

[00:41:54] Josh Lowrey: Correct. Like, they're talking about West Texas, they're just talking about east of this, and it's just an amazing, you know...

[00:41:59] Josh Lowrey: We have... You guys [00:42:00] have people moving all over the place-

[00:42:01] Marshall Dodson: Mm-hmm ...

[00:42:01] Josh Lowrey: at all times. Um, well, I had other great questions here. What do I wanna know, Marshall? What do I want... What do you want the people to know before I deliver some phenomenal question? Have I asked so many great questions that-

[00:42:13] Marshall Dodson: You, you, you, you are such a great

[00:42:15] Josh Lowrey: viewer

[00:42:17] Josh Lowrey: I was

[00:42:20] Josh Lowrey: You know, Hanara brought up that Ask Bob.

[00:42:22] Marshall Dodson: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:23] Josh Lowrey: I, I never put two-two together that that was Bob Chitwood. It's Bob,

[00:42:25] Marshall Dodson: yeah.

[00:42:26] Josh Lowrey: That's great.

[00:42:26] Marshall Dodson: Yeah, but, but the vision is, you know, one of the, one of the challenges we face in the oil field today, and, and remember, like, years ago, people talked about the great shift change- Yeah

[00:42:35] Marshall Dodson: that was coming? Well, we're at the end of the great shift change, and-

[00:42:38] Josh Lowrey: I, I can't believe that ...

[00:42:38] Marshall Dodson: and so there's so much knowledge that, that is left and that is leaving, and so tools to help, um, make sure people know the right questions to ask, and they're talking about the right hazards, um-

[00:42:49] Josh Lowrey: I- is this a fair question to ask, Key?

[00:42:51] Josh Lowrey: Um, are there technologies that, not just AI techno- Are there technologies you guys are working on to bring in? And d- are you rewarded for new technologies, [00:43:00] or are you rewarded for consistent safe work every single day? Like, what's...

[00:43:05] Marshall Dodson: Uh, yes and no.

[00:43:06] Josh Lowrey: Okay.

[00:43:06] Marshall Dodson: Um, there are some very progressive E&Ps out there willing to invest, um, to change the dynamic of the industry.

[00:43:15] Marshall Dodson: Um, but it, it comes back to economics, right? Yeah. So, so we can, we can automate what we do, but n- no one's gonna pay four times the current hourly rate to do that, because you're not any faster.

[00:43:27] Josh Lowrey: Yeah.

[00:43:28] Marshall Dodson: Um, and, and s- What

[00:43:29] Josh Lowrey: will people pay for is, uh, essentially. Yeah.

[00:43:30] Marshall Dodson: So, so, so they're, it... You know, and what people are like, "Well, drilling rigs this and fracks this," and I'm like, "Okay, you know, yeah, but we don't have the same economics," and that ultimately drives a lot of those cap...

[00:43:43] Marshall Dodson: If, if I can't make a return on a conventional rig today, if it costs three times as much, I really can't make a return. I mean, I make a r- you make a return, but not a, not a market acceptable return, not where you'd wanna put capital.

[00:43:58] Josh Lowrey: So Marshall, I could [00:44:00] ask another phenomenal question about Key and give you another home run to hit, but I personally, I don't...

[00:44:12] Josh Lowrey: I believe that companies are the sum of the people that work for them.

[00:44:16] Marshall Dodson: Mm-hmm.

[00:44:17] Josh Lowrey: And I started this podcast the way I'm gonna end this, that I think... And you and I had a conversation years ago, I said, "Look, the, the more the industry can get to know Marshall Dotson, the better it is for you, the industry, Key, et cetera."

[00:44:31] Josh Lowrey: I would like... And Caterpillar, great audience, great listenership.

[00:44:35] Marshall Dodson: And great culture. Oh. Culture is ultimately-

[00:44:39] Josh Lowrey: Incredible ...

[00:44:39] Marshall Dodson: what matters, right?

[00:44:40] Josh Lowrey: It's a 100-year-old company.

[00:44:41] Marshall Dodson: Yeah.

[00:44:42] Josh Lowrey: It's inc-

[00:44:43] Marshall Dodson: Yeah ...

[00:44:43] Josh Lowrey: and they, they're acting like they just started And you're like, how, how are you guys doing this around the world?

[00:44:48] Marshall Dodson: Mm-hmm.

[00:44:49] Josh Lowrey: Mining, construction, oil and gas. You know, their data's, you know, they're in a f- their engine world right now is the envy of every engine company out there. [00:45:00] Yeah. Yeah, no, their, their culture is just great, but they've been great with us. So, you know, I do want- I would love to get a last piece of, you know, what, what is a piece of advice that you can give our audience, Marshall, that is something that you've learned to- over your career, your history, your time as CEO, your time as a husband, father, whatever you wanna say-

[00:45:22] Marshall Dodson: Wow

[00:45:22] Josh Lowrey: that it... Yeah, I, I want... Because I just feel that, that you're, not everyone's gonna get 45 minutes with Marshall Dotson. Yeah. And they're not gonna get to know you over an eight-year period. And I've, I've seen you do this- I mean, consist- I've just seen it, and I want people to know something about you to where they're like, "I'm gonna give Key a shot.

[00:45:39] Josh Lowrey: I'm gonna, I'm gonna send a fake name in to a- ask for a job like Marshall did because, you know, I wanna work for this guy." So, um, there you go.

[00:45:47] Marshall Dodson: Wow. That's, uh, that's a, that's a, that's a big mandate. Um- Yes, it is ... I'm not exactly sure where to, where to take that one. I, I think, I think, uh, I'll, I'll start in one place and then go to another place.

[00:45:58] Marshall Dodson: Okay. So when [00:46:00] you talk about business, I am very much a believer that businesses are the, the sum of the people involved in the business, right? And Jim Wickline's very big on culture, and I completely agree that the culture is really what sets the company up. And cultures are, are bigger than the individuals, but they're set by the leadership, right?

[00:46:21] Marshall Dodson: And, and, um, you know, setting that right culture, getting people to do the right thing when no one's watching, getting them to own what they do, um, when, when no one else is around is, is a huge challenge. Um, and, you know, as I think about my career and, and that learning coming about, you know, one of my first observations was w- we, we all buy the same stuff, right?

[00:46:45] Marshall Dodson: Like, every service company out there buys the same stuff, so what sets, sets you apart? And it's your culture, right? And what is culture? Culture is people. And so, uh, it's, it's trying to create... Well, ultimately I want Key to be the place people wish they could get a [00:47:00] job.

[00:47:00] Josh Lowrey: Hmm.

[00:47:00] Marshall Dodson: And if I succeed in that, then everything else should take care of itself, right?

[00:47:04] Marshall Dodson: Like, I, I want it to be the place where, man, if I got on at Key, I'd be doing great.

[00:47:07] Josh Lowrey: Yeah.

[00:47:08] Marshall Dodson: Um, but I'll take it to a different place because, you know, in, in terms of, uh, personal advice and, and learnings over time, I'm a big believer that you learn through repetition, whether it is playing lacrosse and, and just h- how, how many times you, you, uh, you know, are out in the yard- Ball boy

[00:47:29] Marshall Dodson: with the sticks, right? To, to business. How many, how many times, you know, you do a task, how many challenges you face, how many problems you solve. All of that builds the muscle memory. And, uh, you know, it's just like, uh, like when I, I, when my daughter started working, I had a conversation with her. I, I said, "Look, Bailey, you know, you're s- just starting off.

[00:47:49] Marshall Dodson: Your first year at work, right? And, and you got 40 hours a week, but if you work 60 and the person next to you works 40, at the end of the year you've had a year and a half of reps. [00:48:00] They've had one year. Two years, you've had three years of reps. You know, they've had two." And it just grows exponentially. And so, you know, it's, it's, it's hard to find Y- y- I, I don't think culturally we're at the place where that's celebrated, and I think to some degree, like with myself, it became unhealthy.

[00:48:19] Josh Lowrey: Mm.

[00:48:20] Marshall Dodson: Right? Like, too much. Um, but finding that right balance of really diving in and getting that experience, um, because the easiest way to get that next job is to be doing it before the promotion's there, right? Like, you really need- Yeah ... to be doing your boss's job to be in that, in that job, and the only way you can do that is to start doing it before you're there, and the only way you can do that is to get the people below you doing what you're doing, right?

[00:48:45] Marshall Dodson: Or you work a lot, and it's generally a combination- Yeah ... of the two. But if you think about your own career, you didn't know what that next step was like until you started doing it, right? And the only way you have the time to do that is you have great people like here in the [00:49:00] studio and your whole team who can take those tasks off of you and allow you to, to, to move into the next role before it's really there for you.

[00:49:08] Josh Lowrey: Well, that is a great answer. And speaking of good teammates, I, uh, I offered, I said, "Genaro, your boss is g-..." Genaro works for Upright Digital. He's been with us for close to five years. Absolutely love Genaro. And, but he's- He's,

[00:49:22] Marshall Dodson: he's awesome.

[00:49:23] Josh Lowrey: He's awesome. He does a lot of work. You know, he does work for you guys, around you guys- Mm-hmm

[00:49:27] Josh Lowrey: barbecue, et cetera. And I said, "Hey, Genaro, your boss is gonna be on the podcast tomorrow. You wanna come in?" He's like, "I can't. I got stuff going on." He goes, "Make sure you treat him right. Tell him hello." So Genaro- Yeah ... says hello. Um, well, listen, Marshall, w- I should've said this at the beginning. It's keyenergy.com?

[00:49:47] Marshall Dodson: Keyenergy.com.

[00:49:47] Josh Lowrey: Keyenergy.com. Um-

[00:49:49] Marshall Dodson: No www.

[00:49:50] Josh Lowrey: Yeah, that's... Well, we've learned, haven't we? Yeah. That was early on, we always joked that we could tell how old somebody is when they would say, "WWW.keyenergy." I'm like, "You don't need the WW." They, they get it. [00:50:00] Yeah. So thank you for your time.

[00:50:02] Marshall Dodson: Yep.

[00:50:02] Josh Lowrey: We wish you gu- I mean, listen, this is...

[00:50:04] Josh Lowrey: Folks- You know, this is not a, I'm not doing a commercial for Key. I'm doing a commercial for consistency, quite honestly, for saying what you're gonna do and doing what you say. And thank you for your time. Thank you for coming on the, the Caterpillar Energy Pipeline Podcast. Uh, folks, that's gonna wrap us up for today.

[00:50:20] Josh Lowrey: If you wanna check us out on any of our socials, we are on YouTube. You need to go to the www.caterpillar/oilandgas, and they've got... The way that they index all of their podcasts is incredible. They do... I mean, they're Caterpillar. Yeah. I mean Caterpillar. They know what they're doing. Yeah. And, uh, they've got any subject you wanna talk about, from well servicing to drilling, et cetera.

[00:50:42] Josh Lowrey: And this one will be up in the next couple days here. So thank you very much, Marshall. Thank

[00:50:45] Marshall Dodson: you for having me. Really enjoyed the conversation.

[00:50:47] Josh Lowrey: Before we let you go, I do remember now, it was y- it was David, you, and Victoria were giving me some crap-

[00:50:53] Marshall Dodson: Just a little

[00:50:54] Josh Lowrey: bit ... wa- just they just hit their 100th episode.

[00:50:57] Marshall Dodson: Really?

[00:50:57] Josh Lowrey: They just did their 100th episode, yeah. So [00:51:00] you were, or we kind of robbed you on... But you were back on there late last year though, weren't you?

[00:51:03] Marshall Dodson: Yeah.

[00:51:04] Josh Lowrey: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, you're out then. Don't worry about it. Yeah. I was gonna reinvite you, but-

[00:51:07] Marshall Dodson: Yeah, no,

[00:51:08] Josh Lowrey: but- Invite, invite revoked.

[00:51:09] Marshall Dodson: I, I was, I was early.

[00:51:10] Marshall Dodson: Remember you ambushed me into that podcast? Told me we'd go take, taste tequila, and then you said, "Hey, why

[00:51:17] Josh Lowrey: don't, why don't-" None of that

[00:51:17] Marshall Dodson: sounds

[00:51:18] Josh Lowrey: familiar? "

[00:51:18] Marshall Dodson: Why, why, why don't you come on the pod?"

[00:51:20] Josh Lowrey: None of that sounds familiar. Um, Marshall Dotson, thank you for everything. Thank you. Wish you guys the best of luck.

[00:51:25] Josh Lowrey: Thank

[00:51:26] Marshall Dodson: you.