Natural Gas, AI Demand, and the Future of Energy

[00:00:00] Josh Lowrey: Welcome to the Energy Pipeline Podcast. My name is Josh Lowrey. We are coming to you live from the Heights Studio in the Upright Digital Studios in the urban offices in Houston, Texas. This is during Sarah Week 2026, and I am joined today with President and CEO of the American Gas Association, Karen Har, her harbor.

[00:00:22] Josh Lowrey: See, I, I'm from, you're from dc I'm from Houston. We want to, I'm, I wanted to call you a bear there for a minute.

[00:00:27] Karen Harbert: I was gonna say if I was from Louisiana, yes,

[00:00:29] Josh Lowrey: you could

[00:00:29] Karen Harbert: get away with that.

[00:00:29] Josh Lowrey: And there's a lot of a bears down here in the Houston area, but not a Bear Harbor.

[00:00:33] Karen Harbert: Correct. Okay.

[00:00:34] Josh Lowrey: We, we should throw a little hay.

[00:00:36] Josh Lowrey: Bear a bear in there. Just,

[00:00:37] Karen Harbert: there you go.

[00:00:37] Josh Lowrey: Have you, you come to Houston very often?

[00:00:39] Karen Harbert: I can be. I went to school here.

[00:00:40] Josh Lowrey: You see, look at this.

[00:00:41] Karen Harbert: I went to Rice.

[00:00:42] Josh Lowrey: Oh,

[00:00:42] Karen Harbert: I'm local.

[00:00:44] Josh Lowrey: That's right. Were you called a bear back in your, your rice days?

[00:00:47] Karen Harbert: I was not, but I tell you, when I got here in August, I thought it was a brilliant choice.

[00:00:52] Karen Harbert: In March, I came here,

[00:00:54] Josh Lowrey: the

[00:00:54] Karen Harbert: visit was perfect. It was perfect. People were drinking margarie. It is. It was 73 degrees. I got here in August. It was like 110. Yes. And I was like, what have I done? What have I done? It was like a blast furnace.

[00:01:03] Josh Lowrey: It's unbelievable, isn't it?

[00:01:04] Karen Harbert: Yeah.

[00:01:04] Josh Lowrey: I moved from LA and I used to wear,

[00:01:08] Karen Harbert: I dunno whether it's an upgrade or a downgrade, but,

[00:01:10] Josh Lowrey: well, you know, I remember my taxes.

[00:01:11] Josh Lowrey: I, I got a, there you go. It was a huge raise and my salary hadn't changed. Okay. But the, but the heat and I moved in like October.

[00:01:20] Karen Harbert: Yeah.

[00:01:20] Josh Lowrey: And I was pretty blown away, so I know. I feel your pain back then. But, uh, so we are in mid to late March right now. Late March, Sarah week 2026.

[00:01:29] Karen Harbert: It's nice out.

[00:01:29] Josh Lowrey: It's, it's great.

[00:01:30] Josh Lowrey: You're gonna enjoy your week here, but it's not as great as DC We were talking off air Peak, cherry blossom season.

[00:01:36] Karen Harbert: Yeah.

[00:01:36] Josh Lowrey: It is

[00:01:37] Karen Harbert: beautiful.

[00:01:38] Josh Lowrey: If no one is, if you've never done that, you should go do that. If you've never been to DC to see what that is, that is one of the most beautiful things you've ever seen.

[00:01:45] Josh Lowrey: It was a gift. Was that the gift from the Japanese?

[00:01:47] Karen Harbert: Japanese,

[00:01:47] Josh Lowrey: yeah.

[00:01:47] Karen Harbert: Yeah.

[00:01:48] Josh Lowrey: Look at me. I remember my

[00:01:49] Karen Harbert: grade trip. You, do you remember your eighth grade trip? They're all there right now and I'm glad I'm here because right now with Peak Cherry blossoms everybody on their civics trip, we have the most pedestrian accidents of any time during the year is right now.

[00:02:02] Karen Harbert: So

[00:02:03] Josh Lowrey: well

[00:02:04] Karen Harbert: just be situationally aware,

[00:02:06] Josh Lowrey: situationally, that's a story of life, isn't it? Just be aware of life, you know? Well, alright, so you're here for, uh, Sarah Week.

Mm-hmm.

[00:02:13] Josh Lowrey: Which is, I've heard it called the Davos of Energy, which I like that. I actually like that title quite a bit. What are you, um, before we get into, well, let's actually start with who you are and what you do.

[00:02:23] Karen Harbert: Yes.

[00:02:23] Josh Lowrey: Alright. The American Gas Association, why don't you tell everybody what that is real quick and then we'll talk about how that plays into ser week.

[00:02:29] Karen Harbert: Sure. So we are the trade association for all natural gas utilities. So if you get natural gas in your home, if you cook with it, you dry with it, you heat with it, uh, that's coming from our members.

[00:02:40] Karen Harbert: So 96% of all the molecules in the country are delivered by our members. So we touch every 50, all 50 states, uh, every community in America. Uh, and we're quite proud of what we do.

[00:02:51] Josh Lowrey: That is, you kind of blew past that. Pretty quickly. That is, that is not nothing.

[00:02:57] Karen Harbert: It is not nothing.

[00:02:58] Josh Lowrey: It's a substantial organization.[00:03:00]

[00:03:00] Karen Harbert: We employ a lot of people. We improve people's lives. Mm-hmm. So for your listeners, uh, if you are cooking with gas, you're, you're getting it from one of our members, uh, and our companies and our, you know, our member companies live and work in the communities in which they serve. So they've gotta see their neighbors, which

[00:03:15] Josh Lowrey: is every community.

[00:03:16] Karen Harbert: In the grocery store at the, you know, the, the pharmacy, whatever. So they, they take their responsibility pretty seriously to be good to their neighbors.

[00:03:26] Josh Lowrey: I'm just kind of reading some notes that we went through here. 200, 200 local energy companies that deliver 187 million Americans. I'm surprised there's not more than that.

[00:03:35] Karen Harbert: Well, if you think about it, uh, just for context, that's more people than voted in either of the last two presidential elections. So, I mean, I'm from DC so I gotta put a little political lens on this, right? So I mean, that's a significant amount of people. She's

[00:03:48] Josh Lowrey: a one, she's a pro,

[00:03:49] Karen Harbert: and almost 6 million businesses.

[00:03:51] Karen Harbert: Now, what's even more impressive to that is that we had a customer every minute of every day. Okay. And we had 60 businesses every day.

Numbers

[00:03:59] Josh Lowrey: that make, that makes a lot of sense.

[00:04:00] Karen Harbert: Yeah. I mean, we're growing, growing, growing, investing. Yes. So the next time I'm invited back, uh, to be on your podcast. Yes.

[00:04:06] Karen Harbert: Maybe I'll be maybell, be like over, you know, 200 million people.

[00:04:09] Josh Lowrey: Okay.

[00:04:10] Karen Harbert: So we're on the upswing.

[00:04:11] Josh Lowrey: Okay. I would imagine you are, and again. In Houston, it hasn't changed much since you went to school. I mean, it was oil and gas or oil primarily back. And I, I say back, you look like you just got outta school, so a lot of oil.

[00:04:23] Josh Lowrey: But now it's oil and gas.

[00:04:24] Karen Harbert: Right?

[00:04:25] Josh Lowrey: And gas is the hot item. I mean, everyone's talking about it. Um, they're talking about it locally for the things you talk about, but at the same time it is, it is the, it is the product. Du jour for manufacturing for sure is ai. We're gonna go into all this stuff. Um. I can just imagine that you're gonna go to Sarah week and everyone's gonna wanna talk to you about what's going on.

[00:04:48] Josh Lowrey: The member companies, how are they expanding, what are their, their thoughts? Is that, are those the types of calls you are getting today?

[00:04:53] Karen Harbert: We absolutely are. I mean, we're back in the cool kids club, right?

[00:04:56] Josh Lowrey: I I, exactly. By

[00:04:57] Karen Harbert: the way, so, uh, that wasn't the case a couple of years ago, correct? Right. When, when folks were trying to put us outta business and, you know, you got, why are we gonna build any more pipelines?

[00:05:06] Karen Harbert: Because you're not gonna be here in 10 years. And of course now we're gonna be here 10, 20. How 20 long you

[00:05:09] Josh Lowrey: been with the organization?

[00:05:11] Karen Harbert: Six years.

[00:05:11] Josh Lowrey: Okay.

[00:05:12] Karen Harbert: So I've seen it in its best days, which is right now, uh, I've seen it in its very challenging days.

[00:05:17] Josh Lowrey: Which was your probably first year, I would imagine.

[00:05:19] Karen Harbert: Yeah.

[00:05:19] Karen Harbert: You came

[00:05:19] Josh Lowrey: in a a rough time.

[00:05:20] Karen Harbert: Yeah.

[00:05:21] Josh Lowrey: Yeah.

[00:05:21] Karen Harbert: And to your point about, you know, when I used to be here at, uh, at university, actually, that's when the oil market collapsed. Okay. Uh, Houston was a pretty scary place. Uh, back in the, you know, in the early eighties when the market crashed. And of course, uh, we were running outta oil.

[00:05:36] Karen Harbert: We didn't know we had more natural gas. Things were very bleak. We were dependent on Middle East, uh, for our supplies. And fast forward to today, uh, we're the largest producer of oil and natural gas in the world. We export more. Right. Uh, so, you know what, what a, you know, a fa a change of fate, uh, in terms of our energy future.

[00:05:57] Josh Lowrey: Oh, it's, it's an unbelievable change of fate, really. So, I real, how did you find rice from DC?

[00:06:03] Karen Harbert: Well, I didn't want to go to school in DC 'cause it was way too close to home. Okay. And uh, as I said, when I visited, I went to, uh, a place in Pennsylvania. It was cold and dirty. I went to Northwestern in Chicago and it was like negative 20.

[00:06:16] Josh Lowrey: It's still cold.

[00:06:16] Karen Harbert: Uh, and then I came to Rice and they were drinking margaritas on the lawn and I was like, this is for me.

[00:06:21] Josh Lowrey: Get you.

[00:06:22] Karen Harbert: I know. Did they, I know they totally got me. Um, but I had a great education here. It's, it was a great time to be here. Um, and watching, I mean, and that's really what sparked my interest in the energy world, which was to see how our economy was so fragile and so frail, uh, back then.

[00:06:39] Karen Harbert: Uh, and now of course, we're in a very different position.

[00:06:41] Josh Lowrey: Okay. Um, this is gonna be an easy interview actually, now that I think, I mean, it really is because your, your topic is, or your product. And your organization is, it really is the hottest thing out there. And, you know, I, I saw 60 back to Peyton, the producer of the show, making fun of me.

[00:07:00] Josh Lowrey: I, I asked, did anybody watch 60 Minutes last night? She made fun of me. 'cause did you see 60 Minutes last night?

[00:07:06] Karen Harbert: I can't stay up that late. No, I'm kidding.

[00:07:08] Josh Lowrey: Well, they were talking about, um, the how many ships America is building. Yep. And l and g ships, et cetera. We're not building enough. Is the short version correct or the short answer to how many ships?

[00:07:18] Josh Lowrey: But you know, they're talking about just building l and g ships to supply our own. You know, internal needs around the US and how do we get from one area to the other and Right. They would love to be able to ship l and g.

[00:07:29] Karen Harbert: We don't have a US flag, L and g tanker.

[00:07:31] Josh Lowrey: I'm

[00:07:31] Karen Harbert: telling. I mean, it's, it's, it's a head scratcher.

[00:07:33] Josh Lowrey: Yes.

[00:07:34] Karen Harbert: Uh, we also don't have any icebreakers. Uh, we're building icebreakers for the first time in decades and decades,

[00:07:40] Josh Lowrey: probably in Korea.

[00:07:41] Karen Harbert: Um, actually they're building a couple there, but then they're gonna be doing it in Alabama.

[00:07:45] Josh Lowrey: Okay. That's,

[00:07:46] Karen Harbert: so they're, they're bringing it home.

[00:07:47] Josh Lowrey: I like it. Um. It. Toby Rice, I imagine is one of your UPT.

[00:07:51] Josh Lowrey: Yep. One of your big propo or, uh, but gotta be one of your biggest fans out there.

[00:07:56] Karen Harbert: Oh yeah, for sure.

[00:07:57] Josh Lowrey: He is a very great voice for the industry. We love talking to him all the time. I think he's doing, you know, Toby is a young go-getter, loves the industry, speaks proud about gas, and honestly, you know, he's from Pennsylvania, he's from that area, and what they.

[00:08:15] Josh Lowrey: There are so many people in that we're from Texas, so Texas is just massive, but how many people are just in the, in the world of which that area serves.

[00:08:22] Karen Harbert: Yeah.

[00:08:23] Josh Lowrey: Texas just doesn't have any idea how many people are like right in that square mileage.

[00:08:27] Karen Harbert: In the Marcellus.

[00:08:28] Josh Lowrey: Yes, just in the Marcellus.

[00:08:29] Karen Harbert: Well, he has an amazing message too.

[00:08:31] Karen Harbert: I mean, we, we see the same things, but he's such a compelling, uh, figure to be able to deliver the message about lifting the world out of energy poverty. I mean, who's not to be proud of helping people. You know, overcome their challenges, whether it's in Sub-Saharan Africa, Southeast Asia, uh, we certainly overcame our energy poverty in the United States, correct.

[00:08:52] Karen Harbert: Uh, through, started with wood, then it went to coal, then it went to gas, and now we're gonna be in gas for a very, very long time. Uh, but to be able to use our molecules to help people get out of poverty is, is just so powerful.

[00:09:06] Josh Lowrey: Have you ever spoken to, uh, Alex Epstein?

[00:09:07] Karen Harbert: Yes.

[00:09:08] Josh Lowrey: Yeah. Isn't he great? Yes. On how he presents that message?

[00:09:10] Karen Harbert: Yes,

[00:09:10] Josh Lowrey: it really is. You think about. You call, you're calling it poverty, which is correct, but it is an amazing thing where you don't have to walk. You know, send your family four miles each way for clean water. Water. It's just an amazing thing we take for granted.

[00:09:25] Karen Harbert: Well, here's another interesting angle to it.

[00:09:27] Karen Harbert: You know, the fertilizer industry used to be in the Middle East and that neighborhood got a little tough, so they moved to to Europe. Well, energy prices went up in Europe astronomically because of bad policy decisions. So the fertilizer industry came here to the Gulf and we are producing, we're the number two producer of fertilizer.

[00:09:44] Karen Harbert: Why is that important? Why do we care? Well, we're gonna add two. Billion people to this planet between now and 2050. The one thing we know is those people are going to eat and they, we need to be able to produce clean fertilizer, which we do, uh, and help to have the agricultural industry around the world produce more nutritious food for those new 2 billion people.

[00:10:06] Josh Lowrey: You know, look at these, uh, Caitlin prepared my notes. These notes are phenomenal. What, what do you wanna talk about? There's so much to talk about. I mean, do you have an endless amount of. Subjects that you can just, when you sit down at dinner parties and some, I mean, really when somebody wants to, you are not dealing with the same dinner parties today that you were six years ago.

[00:10:24] Karen Harbert: No,

[00:10:25] Josh Lowrey: it, it is an amazing,

[00:10:26] Karen Harbert: although nobody really wants to talk energy wonkiness, but really, uh, I can all day long through dessert.

[00:10:31] Josh Lowrey: I, I feel like this is something, well, maybe they should.

[00:10:35] Karen Harbert: Yeah.

[00:10:35] Josh Lowrey: I'm not sure they understand how many things it actually touches.

[00:10:38] Karen Harbert: Well, I think you're right. I mean, we've gotten complacent about our energy IQ because uh, when you, because

[00:10:43] Josh Lowrey: the lights always come

on.

[00:10:44] Karen Harbert: The lights always go on, and when they don't, that's when you hear about it. Right. Or you, you know, your house is warm. And now of course your house is cold here in Houston. I mean, natural gas supplies 40% of all the fuel for electricity. So when it gets really hot, uh, you're really glad your air conditioner goes on.

[00:11:00] Karen Harbert: Mm-hmm. And the likelihood here in Texas that it's fueled by natural gas is pretty high,

[00:11:03] Josh Lowrey: correct? I mean, mine is,

[00:11:04] Karen Harbert: yeah. So we're, I don't wanna say we're omnipresent, but we touch a lot of corners just like Caterpillar, right? I mean, everything from fertilizer to fuel, to keeping you cool, to helping you cook your food, to fueling the economy of the future.

[00:11:19] Karen Harbert: I mean, I know we're gonna talk about data centers, ai, uh, but that's all gonna come back to natural gas.

[00:11:24] Josh Lowrey: Caterpillar, did you hear what kind of professional she is right there? Just kinda slip that in. That was unsolicited. Just, she knows what she's doing here. You enjoy your job.

[00:11:33] Karen Harbert: I love it. I love it.

[00:11:35] Josh Lowrey: Yeah, this

[00:11:35] Karen Harbert: is, I'm an energy optimist.

[00:11:37] Karen Harbert: I mean, at, at my very core, uh, 'cause we're changing the world. Absolutely. I mean, we are. Absolutely. Uh, and it's not just in Sub-Saharan Africa, it's in, you know, here in the heights. Uh, we're changing the world.

[00:11:47] Josh Lowrey: You know, we've, my, I've been in oil and gas for 25 years and we've, we're members of other, through my manufacturing business, we're through, uh, parts of other oil, oil and gas organizations.

[00:11:57] Josh Lowrey: And your role is tough. You're, the CEO of these industry organizations is tough, right? You're keeping a lot of people happy. At all times trying, I mean, truly. Yeah. You've got your, your member companies, just the CEOs, these member companies. You've got a, uh, your policy world is busy. I mean, you're trying to navigate through lots of different, um, share stakeholders is probably the best way to say it.

[00:12:21] Josh Lowrey: Yeah. What are, what do the, what do you hear from your different, what are the, what's the mutual thing that you hear kind of, that flows between. Those three different stakeholders, member companies, policy, and then what needs to be done.

[00:12:35] Karen Harbert: Well, and you know, energy is one of those issues that the pendulum swings.

[00:12:38] Karen Harbert: Okay. Right. Left to right, left to right. Uh, but what you're seeing now is it's really centering, uh, because it is so central to everybody's existence and our future. And I, I, what I'm, and what we're gonna talk about at sir week is about energy practicality. Energy realism. Uh, it's, it's really nice to say we're gonna be, you know, all solar and wind all the time.

[00:12:59] Karen Harbert: And actually the practical reality is crept in, is that we can't do it. Right. It's not that they're bad.

[00:13:03] Josh Lowrey: Exactly. D All the

[00:13:04] Karen Harbert: above. We need all of the above. Uh, and so I think you're seeing just a, a practical reality conversation. I mean, even for those states and governors that have the most progressive policies, California, New York, Massachusetts, uh, the leadership in, in those states is starting to recognize that the decisions that they have made and the trajectory they've put their states on is actually hitting people where they don't wanna be hit, which is their pocketbook.

[00:13:28] Karen Harbert: Correct. So. Being able to actually embrace, uh, the future of natural gas in places like Pennsylvania, not Pennsylvania, in in New York, Massachusetts, even California.

[00:13:39] Josh Lowrey: Before we move on to the AI subject, which is you wanna talk about being annoying at dinner parties, this, this is who I've become. Are you working with all 50 states yourself?

[00:13:48] Josh Lowrey: I know you're in all 50 states, but are you personally kind of traveling to these places and meeting with the newsom's of the world?

[00:13:54] Karen Harbert: Absolutely. We'll go anywhere and talk to anybody.

[00:13:56] Josh Lowrey: Yeah.

[00:13:57] Karen Harbert: Uh, I haven't been to Hawaii yet, but I'm working on Hawaii gases out there, but, uh, for some reason they haven't invited us up there yet, but I've been to Alaska.

[00:14:04] Karen Harbert: Okay. Um, no, I, I do, I mean, for energy and particularly in natural gas, I mean, certainly there's a federal lens. That's why our trade association is in Washington, DC Okay. But. We have to deal with every one of the 50 states because they are in charge of a lot of what we do. Absolutely. Our state regulators, the ability to be able to build pipelines within the state of Texas, uh, that's a state policy.

[00:14:26] Karen Harbert: That's a state decision. That's not something that's gonna happen, you know, at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

[00:14:33] Josh Lowrey: I guess this is my oil and gas just world, but I'm, I feel like I have a harder. World to navigate because of manufacturing restrictions, then you would, I feel like everybody should be on your team.

[00:14:48] Karen Harbert: Oh, I would.

[00:14:48] Karen Harbert: Um, everybody's welcome.

[00:14:50] Josh Lowrey: Want them all. But are they, are they not? Like, I'm like, for instance, I, I hate to beat up on California, by the way. California great listener. We've got great listenership out there, so thank, keep listening California. But would California not be a, an, they've gotta be an ally. This is a good thing for them is gas.

[00:15:07] Josh Lowrey: This is clean, it burns right. I, I used to live there when the brownouts happened.

[00:15:11] Karen Harbert: Yeah.

[00:15:12] Josh Lowrey: They were having to turn on turbines in, uh, Nevada for their power.

[00:15:17] Karen Harbert: Well, I mean places like California, places like the Northeast, and we just came through some pretty challenging winter weather, right? I mean, we had storm fern, uh, where we had, you know, 10 days of Sub-Zero temperatures.

[00:15:29] Karen Harbert: By the way, we didn't l lose a natural gas customer. But in those challenging times, the Northeast, which has restricted the build out of gas infrastructure, they're turning on heating oil. Now you wanna talk about in an environmentally unfriendly

[00:15:42] Josh Lowrey: source. So that's, I understand it. So that's where your problems come from, is more infrastructure build for Nat Gas.

[00:15:47] Karen Harbert: Correct? Correct. I

[00:15:49] Josh Lowrey: mean, not, not they, they do understand the benefits, but there's still restrictions on

[00:15:52] Karen Harbert: still restrictions, even in California. I mean, uh, you know, uh, in places like New York as well. I mean, they, they're building this infrastructure out quietly at 3:00 AM

[00:16:00] Josh Lowrey: Yes.

[00:16:00] Karen Harbert: Uh, with no, you know, media.

[00:16:02] Karen Harbert: President. So, uh, the practical reality as we just talked about is creeping in that they're gonna need this for quite some time. They may not produce it there, but they're gonna be importing it.

[00:16:11] Josh Lowrey: Well, let me tell you what I think is our, um, biggest ally is ai.

[00:16:17] Karen Harbert: Okay?

[00:16:18] Josh Lowrey: I think AI is, you know, if, if oil and gas, if, if the energy company said This is the best thing of all time, you should do it.

[00:16:28] Josh Lowrey: They're gonna be like, I don't think so. If a 16-year-old girl says, I wanna post every single video and I don't want any disruptions, and oh, by the way, so do all my friends, and if you don't, we're gonna yell at you and you know, we're gonna put up, you know, we're gonna start a camping against you. Yeah.

[00:16:45] Josh Lowrey: They're impossible to say no to. I have a 13-year-old daughter, I can't tell her no, and she

[00:16:50] Karen Harbert: wouldn't listen anyway, just so

[00:16:51] Josh Lowrey: you know, by the way. Oh, I don't want, that's a whole nother subject. I can't tell if she likes me or not right now. Don't answer that, Peyton. So the, I do believe that the social media and the, these, the metas, the ai or the, a WSS of the world and all these AI companies, they're actually helping us because their, their need and their desire for to hyperscale is.

[00:17:15] Josh Lowrey: They're just like, we need it. And they're, they're just pushing this thing through at levels that I've never seen before.

[00:17:20] Karen Harbert: No, you're absolutely right. I mean, the, the tech world and the energy world never used to talk to one another. Correct. I mean, that they were inconvenient partners. Right.

[00:17:28] Josh Lowrey: That's a

[00:17:29] Karen Harbert: great way to say.

[00:17:29] Karen Harbert: But now, uh, we're essential to one another. So, you know, AI's helping us be more. Uh, we're helping them actually realize the dreams of your 13-year-old. Uh, and we're actually changing the entire way that the economy functions with advanced manufacturing, all the things we've gotta win the AI race, I mean, let's be clear, we're in a very geopolitically challenging time right now with Iran, but really you can't take the eye off the prize, which is to beat China at this a IRA that's gonna take here.

[00:17:57] Josh Lowrey: You are good at what you do,

[00:17:58] Karen Harbert: energy.

[00:17:59] Josh Lowrey: You're very good at what you do. I'm telling

[00:18:02] Karen Harbert: you, I work at it every day.

[00:18:03] Josh Lowrey: I mean, you're good. I like it. Alright, so let's, why do we have to win? I know why we have to win. What are you, what are you telling this? I feel like you have a stump speech on this.

[00:18:11] Karen Harbert: Well, I mean it's, there's the national security imperative.

[00:18:13] Josh Lowrey: Okay.

[00:18:14] Karen Harbert: Uh, we can't be number two to China and we can't be number two to anybody.

[00:18:17] Josh Lowrey: Get it

go.

[00:18:17] Karen Harbert: There's the economic security angle as well. We want to be able to have the quality of life that we enjoy, and we want to help other people have that type of quality of life. So those two principles are just inextricably intertwined, and that all comes back to that third pillar, which is energy security.

[00:18:33] Karen Harbert: So if you have energy security, you will have economic security and you will have national security. We have ignored the energy security angle for far too long,

[00:18:44] Josh Lowrey: you know? Karen, the only thing you do when you stop talking is I'm, I'm actually listening to you.

[00:18:50] Karen Harbert: Good. At least somebody is. My kids don't.

[00:18:54] Josh Lowrey: The problem is I'm not really prepping my next question. I'm listening and I'm like, shit. She's on it. So like, oh wait, you're, I forgot I'm interviewing. I can't just listen.

[00:19:03] Josh Lowrey: All right. So I agree with that. We've, we've ignored it. But this is what I, we've you're talking about Well, we, that's the bigger problem. We've outsourced everything for so long. Yeah. We were talking about the ships earlier. We outsourced those 30 years ago. We've outsourced everything 30 years ago, so now we're trying to bring it back.

[00:19:18] Josh Lowrey: The, the data centers. I mean, it does come back to how do you tell the story that we need infrastructure people to talk to the, what's the word? I, I, I, ercot is what I'm thinking about, but the, uh, not industrials. What's the word I'm looking for, Karen? The, the government,

[00:19:38] Karen Harbert: the. Transmission organizations, RTOs.

[00:19:42] Josh Lowrey: I'm just, why is this word looting my brain right now? I've had a weird morning. We'll come back to that. It's ultimately everybody has to start talking to each other. Yeah. Is a week like Sarah week where people do that. Like how do you get everybody in the same room? To,

[00:19:54] Karen Harbert: well, they can't fit on the same room, uh, because there's like 10,000 people there.

[00:19:58] Karen Harbert: Uh, so I think you

[00:19:59] Josh Lowrey: just mean there's so many stakeholders, or

[00:20:01] Karen Harbert: there's so many stakeholders they've come from all around the world. Dan Jurgen puts on a, an amazing conference. Uh, it is

[00:20:06] Josh Lowrey: by the way. It is phenomenal.

[00:20:08] Karen Harbert: It is. And this is, I think it's like my 25th really so week. Uh, I have to go and count that, but I think that's probably about right.

[00:20:15] Karen Harbert: Um, and I've been here when things were, you know, you could fit everybody in one room because oil was going away, gas was going away. We were unpopular. And now, I mean the hotels are all sold out downtown, right? Uh, because of Sierra week. Uh, and, and as I said, people come from all over the world and they wanna come here, not just because it's Houston and it's the energy capital of the world.

[00:20:36] Karen Harbert: Although we could make the argument that maybe Pennsylvania is becoming the energy capital of the world right now. Uh, but because it is the United States and we are so energy dominant to use this administration's word, right? Uh, but we are an energy superpower. And they wanna know how we did it. Uh, and they want to be able to emulate it in their own countries.

[00:20:55] Josh Lowrey: You know, we've been doing a lot of work for one of our other companies in, uh, the Middle East. Uh, in fact, the week that this, that, you know, the turmoil kind of turned on, we were on our way to open a new office actually in Abu Dhabi. Um, we we're still gonna do it. We believe it's short term and, you know, there's a lot of industry over there.

[00:21:11] Josh Lowrey: The amount of, uh, data center effort going on in the Middle East to capture Europe's. To be the, the provider for the European Sure. Data center is just enormous. Mm-hmm. And you see, when you kind of go see what people are doing over there, they understand. They understand, man, this is the future. We've got to help.

[00:21:32] Josh Lowrey: We've gotta have it. That, that's what I meant by our, is everyone in the room talking? I guess you're right. They can't fit everybody in the same room, but I mean. The stakeholders, whether it be the infrastructure people, the gas pipeline people, the, the, the American Gas Association, et cetera, the Toby Rices of the world are those people I feel like they should be and probably are in line with each other.

[00:21:54] Karen Harbert: And everybody's got a different angle, right? I mean, depending on, you know, what, what part of the set, what segment of the industry you're in. You're obviously, you know, thinking about your own book. Uh, but the reality is, is that we are having a very different conversation, uh, and it is about build, baby build, right?

[00:22:09] Karen Harbert: Whether it's LNG, export capacity, I mean, if you think about what happened with Russia and Ukraine, what's still going on without American liquified natural gas, uh, the economy in Europe would've just cratered. Uh, we are now exporting more natural gas to Europe than we ever have in our nation's history.

[00:22:28] Karen Harbert: Uh, and we're building more capacity to even supply more. And that's a good story. Those are our allies. We should be supporting them.

[00:22:39] Josh Lowrey: This, you, you kind of, this is a good lead into the next set of questions I was gonna think about is pricing.

[00:22:44] Karen Harbert: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:48] Josh Lowrey: Is what does pricing do is, I know it's gone up. Um. Does it continue to go up? Does the, obviously demand goes up,

[00:22:56] Karen Harbert: right?

[00:22:57] Josh Lowrey: Um, supply is still solid. Does, are we gonna see significant price increases over the next five years?

[00:23:05] Karen Harbert: No.

[00:23:05] Josh Lowrey: No. Really?

[00:23:06] Karen Harbert: You heard it here first?

[00:23:07] Josh Lowrey: That's impressive.

[00:23:08] Karen Harbert: The look, I mean, you know, there's, you know, swings in, in prices. I mean, today the price of natural gas is about $3. Mm-hmm. Uh, in Europe it's approaching 20. Uh, so you think about that price differential, right?

[00:23:23] Josh Lowrey: I remember it was nine here and people

[00:23:25] Karen Harbert: Yes.

[00:23:25] Josh Lowrey: Lost their minds. Yes.

[00:23:26] Karen Harbert: And remember when it was $9 here? That was at the beginning of the Iraq war. So 2003 it was $9.

[00:23:32] Josh Lowrey: Is that what that was? My

[00:23:33] Karen Harbert: god. A adjusted for inflation. But we were importing about 60% of our natural gas. Today we're not. Uh, and so when you look at that $3 price tag right now, we're basically insulating the American consumer, the families, the businesses, your small business from those price bikes.

[00:23:51] Karen Harbert: Because we are self-sufficient, uh, we have plenty of supply and we're keeping it affordable. We're keeping it reliable, obviously, and we're still exporting, uh, the most we ever have in our, in our nation's history. And that will continue, uh, to expand. Particularly in the next 10 years.

[00:24:07] Josh Lowrey: The exporting isn't an issue for pricing

[00:24:09] Karen Harbert: increases.

[00:24:10] Karen Harbert: No, it's a, actually, it's a demand signal. If you know there's gonna be more opportunity to export, you're gonna produce more. If you produce more simple supply and demand, right, you're gonna keep the prices low. And within reach, even during these storms that we've had this winter, uh, you know, we were basically insulated from the global, uh, price spikes that we saw all around the world.

[00:24:31] Josh Lowrey: Say that last part again.

[00:24:32] Karen Harbert: So like these storms that we just had, Fern. Right. And, and others, uh, you saw prices really spike for a long period of time, uh, around the world, and we were insulated from that. Uh, did prices go up a little bit? Yes. Are they back down below where they were before the storm? Yes.

[00:24:47] Karen Harbert: It's a good story. It's a great story. I don't think people appreciate, uh, our energy advantage. Natural gas is our competitive advantage. Full stop.

[00:24:56] Josh Lowrey: I, I agree completely. I think our only real problem is infrastructure

[00:25:00] Karen Harbert: build, baby build.

[00:25:01] Josh Lowrey: I know. How do we do that?

[00:25:03] Karen Harbert: We've made it so, I mean, the last big pipeline to get built in this country took an act of Congress.

[00:25:10] Karen Harbert: Uh. Basically the White House had to, you know, nudge things along or boot, you know, kick them along. Uh, it shouldn't be that hard. So we need to modernize our permitting system.

[00:25:21] Josh Lowrey: Well, there's so much political Oh yeah. I mean, protesting, et cetera, behind. One pipeline. I mean the one that got all the attention I'm, are we,

[00:25:30] Karen Harbert: whether it's an oil pipeline or I mean, you think, I think you're thinking of Keystone X I'm

of

[00:25:34] Josh Lowrey: Keystone.

[00:25:34] Josh Lowrey: That was oil. Okay.

[00:25:34] Karen Harbert: Keystone. That was oil. But it doesn't matter. It's the same concept, which is why are we making it so hard? Which by the way, if it's, you know, it's really hard. It's really burdensome. But at the end of the day. People that pay the price for that. It's not the developer, it's not the financier.

[00:25:49] Karen Harbert: It's us,

[00:25:49] Josh Lowrey: right?

[00:25:50] Karen Harbert: Because we're making that infrastructure more expensive. And at the end of the day, somebody's gonna pay that bill. Uh, and it's not gonna be, it's gonna be us. So why are we doing it to ourselves? Why, why can't we make it easier, more afford,

[00:26:02] Josh Lowrey: affordable? Is that an educ? Part for the, for the average consumer.

[00:26:05] Karen Harbert: It is. I think we're gonna get there with this congress because we have, um, neutralized. Some people wanna like, let's just do permitting reform for wind and solar. Let's just do permitting reform for oil and gas. No, we need permitting reform for everybody,

[00:26:19] Josh Lowrey: right.

[00:26:20] Karen Harbert: So, I mean, 10 years from now, I don't want to be, you know, ripping pipe out of the ground because I've, you know, and same with wind and solar.

[00:26:26] Karen Harbert: They don't want to be, you know, uh, ripping their wires down. Uh, when somebody goes outta favor, we need it all. And it's not, it's a, not a luxury good. I mean, this is, this is central to everybody's everyday business.

[00:26:40] Josh Lowrey: I mean, you should be hosting this show. Huh?

[00:26:43] Karen Harbert: I'll interview you.

[00:26:44] Josh Lowrey: I'm, I, look, I, I just couldn't agree with you more.

[00:26:46] Josh Lowrey: I mean, it's it good. It's you. This is almost, you know, we started one of these shows, the Energy Transition Show five years ago. Uh, 2019. 2020. And Solar and Wind were the hot item out there. Sure. And gas was there, but really it was solar and wind. And what you learned was salt and winter. Great. And they're great for what they are, but it doesn't always blow and it's not always sunny.

[00:27:07] Karen Harbert: Right.

[00:27:08] Josh Lowrey: And there's a lot of tax. Breaks for that type of infrastructure, and you wonder what gas would do with those types of breaks, you know? I mean, it would just take off and serve the entire United States. Um, you, you mentioned in this congress that we might get there, what type of policy? Um, acceptance policy.

[00:27:29] Josh Lowrey: I mean, you're probably running into a more educated Congress than you've ever seen. They're, they're younger, they're coming in, they've seen things before, they haven't seen, they understand that their constituents don't wanna pay. High energy rates anymore. Right. What are you, what are you seeing from your, the people you're PO you're working with in Congress?

[00:27:45] Karen Harbert: Well, one of the things you mentioned, the words energy transition, and I'll just push back on you just a little bit right there,

please.

[00:27:51] Josh Lowrey: Yeah.

[00:27:51] Karen Harbert: Which is transition has a beginning and an end,

[00:27:54] Josh Lowrey: correct. Right.

[00:27:54] Karen Harbert: That correct? There is no end.

[00:27:56] Josh Lowrey: It's, yeah, you're right.

[00:27:57] Karen Harbert: So we talk about it as an energy evolution.

[00:27:59] Josh Lowrey: I, I would've said energy addition, by the way.

[00:28:01] Karen Harbert: Addition.

[00:28:01] Josh Lowrey: Yeah. We've changed, I've transitioned to energy addition. Just

[00:28:04] Karen Harbert: we're, yeah. There you go. Where, I mean, we've been too long of energy, subtraction and taking, you know, opportunities and fuels off the, off the table. So if we're in this, you

[00:28:12] Josh Lowrey: call by the way, evolution.

[00:28:13] Karen Harbert: Evolution,

[00:28:14] Josh Lowrey: okay.

[00:28:14] Karen Harbert: So, I mean, you know, we've gone from wood to where we are today and you know.

[00:28:19] Karen Harbert: Uh, three decades from now we'll be, you know, some maybe, uh, maybe we'll even see fission, uh, or fusion. Uh, maybe, uh, we'll see. But, um, we have to continue to evolve and adapt to our current circumstances. And you're right, wind and solar have their place. Uh, but natural gas is what we have right now, which is abundant.

[00:28:38] Karen Harbert: We have well over a hundred years supply of natural gas and we haven't even looked someplace. I mean, there's places off the, the coast of California, off the Mid-Atlantic, we haven't even looked. So we're gonna be continuing to have pleasant surprises in terms of more and more natural gas, and that's enabled by technology.

[00:28:57] Karen Harbert: So this AI revolution that we've just been talking about is producing more and more, I love it, and more energy, more efficiently, uh, and more cleanly. Let's not forget about that. I mean, on top of it are still, uh, trying to reduce emissions every day.

[00:29:11] Josh Lowrey: I, you were again, back to my notes that I, there you go.

[00:29:15] Josh Lowrey: I'm terrible at following. By the way, this is the, the next thing I wanted to talk about, I know we briefly touched on it, but I don't think anything we can talk about doesn't come back to the ai, the data center and demand growth.

[00:29:28] Karen Harbert: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:28] Josh Lowrey: I just. This is what I was telling you. I'm, I'm annoying at dinner parties right now.

[00:29:33] Josh Lowrey: Peptides and data centers is all I wanna talk about.

[00:29:36] Karen Harbert: Geez. But you know, we can't forget about, it's incredible. Well, I don't, uh, but I'm, I don't know that I'm coming to your dinner party, but we'll see.

[00:29:44] Josh Lowrey: Oh, they're. Fascinating.

[00:29:46] Karen Harbert: Um, just be yelling at people for an

[00:29:47] Josh Lowrey: hour and a half.

[00:29:48] Karen Harbert: Don't, I don't want us to lose sight of the environment.

[00:29:51] Karen Harbert: Right. I mean, we're all environmentalists. Yes. So, you know, people think like you're in the oil and gas business, you're not environmentalists. We all live on the same planet.

[00:29:57] Josh Lowrey: Correct. I have children

[00:29:58] Karen Harbert: and Yeah. Right. That's, and so I like clean water. We haven't, uh, strayed from our mission of reducing emissions.

[00:30:05] Karen Harbert: And the natural gas side of things. Methane emissions are down 70% since 1990. That's a huge number. And we're gonna get huge next Thirty's number. We're, we're gonna do it. Uh, and it's gonna be because of technology. It's gonna, because of AI allowing us to continue to get more out of each molecule. So do more with less, uh, and reduce emissions.

[00:30:24] Josh Lowrey: You, you bring down, that's a great point. The methane. Um. How have you guys addressed that within your organization? How do you, is, are there committees that you have that you guys, that the gas companies and gas people come together and say Yes. How, how can you

[00:30:35] Karen Harbert: expand upon that a little bit? And we, you know, we, we swap stories, right?

[00:30:38] Karen Harbert: I mean, best practices.

[00:30:39] Josh Lowrey: Best practices, yeah.

[00:30:40] Karen Harbert: Uh, you, how are, how are you doing in Oklahoma that might be appropriate for Oregon or maybe it's not. Uh, but situational awareness of the different types of technologies, uh, that are allowing people to provide, uh, energy affordably, uh, reliably, uh, and increasingly with less emissions.

[00:30:58] Karen Harbert: And that's, that's a priority for every one of our member companies.

[00:31:01] Josh Lowrey: Is there a story that you would share that is one of your favorite success stories of the a GA in the last 10, 15 years, five years?

[00:31:12] Karen Harbert: Well, I think, I mean if you look back 10 years ago to today, if, if you had asked me that question 10 years ago, or if you had said, is this statement true or false, are we gonna be the largest producer of natural gas on the planet?

[00:31:24] Karen Harbert: I could have very well said no, or I hope so, but I don't know. And now here we are, right? Uh, and that's through just, you know, rigorous pursuit of the right policies. The right regulations, uh, and educating our customers, our stakeholders, to the point where, you know, you even have the, the governor of Massachusetts who was stridently Antiga, uh, have to come out and say, you know what?

[00:31:48] Karen Harbert: Gas is gonna be with us for quite some time. And that's not a bad thing.

[00:31:52] Josh Lowrey: Yeah. One time you, when you keep saying our customers, are you talking about the consumer?

[00:31:57] Karen Harbert: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:31:58] Josh Lowrey: Really? So the, the a GA views a consumer as their customer.

[00:32:01] Karen Harbert: Yes.

[00:32:02] Josh Lowrey: That is an interesting way to view it from a, um, a standpoint of a association.

[00:32:08] Karen Harbert: So, I mean, I obviously have my member companies. Sure. So those 200 utilities, uh, the

[00:32:12] Josh Lowrey: utilities, that's the word I was looking for earlier. I kept,

[00:32:14] Karen Harbert: so, I mean, we've got those, but ultimately it's about service in, in, in the cus for the customer. Right. Those 189 million Americans, uh, that rely on us every day.

[00:32:23] Karen Harbert: Yeah. We gotta do our job.

[00:32:24] Josh Lowrey: That's very cool to think of it like that. Like we are here to serve. The people don't ever forget that. Right? I mean, that's a neat way to look at it.

[00:32:30] Karen Harbert: Yeah.

[00:32:31] Josh Lowrey: We're 200 people to serve 189 million.

[00:32:33] Karen Harbert: Well, and let's not forget that these companies that deliver natural gas to your home, to your place of business, those employees live and work in those communities.

[00:32:42] Karen Harbert: So they take their jobs to service their neighbors, their friends, their family, their local is very seriously

[00:32:48] Josh Lowrey: right. They're environmentalists as well.

[00:32:49] Karen Harbert: They're environmentalists as well. And they, they place safety first. Uh, nobody ever wants to, you know, have somebody not go home the way that they arrived at work.

[00:32:57] Karen Harbert: Correct.

[00:32:59] Josh Lowrey: Well, I've, uh, totally botched these notes. I, your, your, your people here. They've, how did I do? Gimme a thumbs up that Okay. They're giving me the thumbs up. They're, everyone's so organized these days. They're like, Josh, can you do this? Can outta here? Caterpillar yell at me after every interview.

[00:33:17] Josh Lowrey: They're like, Josh, thanks for. Not paying any attention to our notes. You really did a great job. And I'm like, thanks for, why do you send me 15 pages of notes?

[00:33:24] Karen Harbert: Go Caterpillar.

[00:33:25] Josh Lowrey: Caterpillar. Great. By the way, caterpillar, phenomenal company. We really enjoying 'em. This is probably gonna be one of our last interview, actually.

[00:33:31] Josh Lowrey: This one went pretty well. I just, uh, I just can't read their notes. They're too good. Is there anything that I've left out that you, that people, by the way, you are really good at Job. I like this. This is, do you know Leslie Byer by any chance? She was. I don't. She was the, uh, CEO of. It used to be called petroleum equipment, then it was called, uh, energy Workforce Council.

[00:33:51] Josh Lowrey: Great organization. I have tremendous respect for Leslie. She's, she went and worked for the, the government for a while, but I always felt like she had to keep. 5,000 people happy at all times. And I mean that, like I, the, the, your role is not easy. That's why I brought that up early in the interview. You have not only the 200 member companies, but apparently 187 million Americans that you have to keep happy.

[00:34:14] Josh Lowrey: And I, and I'm saying that tongue in cheek, but really this is not an easy job. And people, they don't, I don't fully think that the average person listening understands what. The CEO of a an industry organization actually does like, it is, it's not just lobbying, it is gathering lots of balls in the air and then gathering them, organizing them, putting it to like, let's build a strategy here that is the best for, as you mentioned, everybody has their own.

[00:34:41] Josh Lowrey: Thing that Neil Lens, their own

[00:34:41] Karen Harbert: segment. Yeah.

[00:34:42] Josh Lowrey: Correct.

[00:34:43] Karen Harbert: The other point that, that people don't quite appreciate is it takes a lot of money to make this system work. Uh, and that means raising capital. So I actually spend a good amount of my time in Wall Street, uh, help the, the investment community, the analysts, absolutely.

[00:34:57] Karen Harbert: The bankers, uh, understand the value proposition of our industry that we are, takes money to make money, uh, but that we are a good and honest and transparent return on their investments. Uh, we're good long-term investments, uh, because those 189 million Americans, that'll be a hundred ninety, a hundred ninety two, right?

[00:35:14] Karen Harbert: Yeah. We're growing.

[00:35:15] Josh Lowrey: They're having children.

[00:35:16] Karen Harbert: Uh, they're having children. And so, uh, we do spend a lot of time with the investment community. There's a lot here at Sarah Week.

[00:35:21] Josh Lowrey: Absolutely. There are.

[00:35:22] Karen Harbert: Uh, and we'll be, you know, certainly talking to them, helping them understand because it, we, we need more investment.

[00:35:28] Karen Harbert: We need more capital expenditures.

[00:35:29] Josh Lowrey: Well, just so you know, you've fallen into the right podcast. We were, um, we founded this. This organization in 2019, this podcast media group in 2019 Bank, um, with a investment bank, one of the largest investment banks, actually the largest investment bank in oil and gas.

[00:35:44] Josh Lowrey: And because of that, our listenership is heavily financed backed. So they're gonna hear this

[00:35:51] Karen Harbert: good

[00:35:51] Josh Lowrey: and we will, uh, they will make sure. Your message is, is passed to the people that East Year. You will be a returning guest. Do you come? You've 25th Sarah Weeks, you'll be at 26th year. I

[00:36:01] Karen Harbert: absolutely will.

[00:36:02] Josh Lowrey: So let's get this on the books to make sure you're back next year.

[00:36:04] Josh Lowrey: Is there anything that I've missed?

[00:36:06] Karen Harbert: Well, I think just to, to your point about the investments community. So you know, you've got three,

[00:36:09] Josh Lowrey: you just heard there's money guys let list.

[00:36:11] Karen Harbert: So there's, I mean, there's three rating agencies. Okay? Right. There's Fitch, there's Moody's, there's s and p. S and P happens to be, you know, heavily dominated by Sarah.

[00:36:18] Karen Harbert: Uh, but if you look at all three of those rating agencies and how they view natural gas utilities, uh, our ratings continue to go up. Uh, and there's a reason for that, right? Which is solid. We're, we're a solid investment. Uh, we're transparent, you know, come look under the kimono any day. Uh, and we, you know, we have proved our medal, uh, with the investment community, and we will continue to earn that opportunity every day.

[00:36:43] Josh Lowrey: What else can you ask for?

[00:36:44] Karen Harbert: Right?

[00:36:44] Josh Lowrey: I mean, if you're, if you're putting money somewhere, what else are you asking for?

[00:36:48] Karen Harbert: Exactly

[00:36:48] Josh Lowrey: right. Well, and I'm telling you, it's all contingent upon 13 year olds. Making videos and they're not gonna stop

[00:36:55] Karen Harbert: cat videos.

[00:36:56] Josh Lowrey: They're not gonna stop if my daughter's any, you know, barometer this, it just, it's endless.

[00:37:02] Karen Harbert: Well, she's gonna be able to produce her videos, but at the same token, you know, we're gonna see the data centers. You know, you look here in Texas, right? I mean you have the energy center, uh, that is sitting right now getting built on top of the Permian mm-hmm. To actually fuel data centers.

[00:37:16] Josh Lowrey: Correct.

[00:37:17] Karen Harbert: So you've got a workforce out there, you've got a university out there, you've got land, you're not bothering anybody.

[00:37:22] Karen Harbert: Those data centers are, are huge.

[00:37:24] Josh Lowrey: Absolutely. Yeah. Well, thank you very much, truly. I, I wish you the best. I'm sure I'll see you down there. I'm gonna head out there tomorrow. I'll be there. So I'll be looking for you. But good luck this week. It's Sarah week. Um, Karen Harbert. Present, CEO of American Gas. How can they get ahold of you?

[00:37:37] Josh Lowrey: What's the website?

[00:37:38] Karen Harbert: Uh, aga.org.

[00:37:39] Josh Lowrey: Great. aga.org.

[00:37:40] Karen Harbert: Yeah. There's lots of very interesting statistics if you're a statistics person. Uh, but also some really compelling narratives of the actual employees and what they do every day. They go above, above, beyond couple

[00:37:51] Josh Lowrey: of videos. Well.

[00:37:51] Karen Harbert: Oh, we do

[00:37:52] Josh Lowrey: YouTube, et cetera.

[00:37:53] Karen Harbert: We do.

[00:37:54] Karen Harbert: And, uh, let's not forget that these gas utility workers at their very core are first responders. Uh, and so it's, it's just such an honor to be able to be part of this industry and to see them, you know, they don't just work nine to five. Yeah. Uh, they're still doing things five to nine. Uh, whether it's in their community, whether it's going above and beyond and saving somebody from a burning house, they are first responders.

[00:38:16] Karen Harbert: 'cause they are unlike other parts of the industry that don't come into your house. Our utility workers go into your house.

[00:38:23] Josh Lowrey: You know, I could actually do another 30 minutes just on that. So, back to why this podcast started. It started as one podcast and we, it because it was about manufacturing and we were selling forgings.

[00:38:35] Josh Lowrey: And really nobody cares about a forging. Um, it's metal. That's why I always go back to, it's the best metal ever, but okay, fine, that guy's metal's good. This guy's metal's good, whatever. But really it was the story behind the metal. Who is the person actually forging the steel? Who is the guy, you know, what does the, what does the melt shop look like?

[00:38:53] Josh Lowrey: How clean is it? It, you know? Yeah. And when you started really digging behind who are the people, um, that make your steel and you realize like, this guy loves steel. And he's been doing it. I'm the fifth generation and I've been, and you the stories that peel back

[00:39:10] Karen Harbert: Yeah.

[00:39:11] Josh Lowrey: Behind is there is a difference in the metal and it's the care that goes into it.

[00:39:15] Josh Lowrey: And you're like, well, my steel is better than that guy Steel because it's, and it's for these exact reasons. And what you're describing is that story I always tell people, companies are nothing more than where people.

[00:39:26] Karen Harbert: That's right.

[00:39:26] Josh Lowrey: And it's how hard does that person work? How much do they care? Are they gonna be up from five to nine, as you mentioned?

[00:39:31] Josh Lowrey: That's a really great way of saying it, so that I'm glad you've kind of put a, a, a data point that we, when I, when the light goes on, the light goes on. But why does it go on?

[00:39:41] Karen Harbert: Why? Who's behind it?

[00:39:42] Josh Lowrey: Who's behind it? And one person is Karen. So thank you very much.

[00:39:45] Karen Harbert: Thank you for having me. Appreciate it. I really enjoyed it.

[00:39:47] Karen Harbert: It was great. Good luck to you. Yeah. See you, uh, see you downtown tomorrow.

[00:39:49] Josh Lowrey: I'll be in a suit. I'll look great.

[00:39:51] Karen Harbert: Alright.

[00:39:51] Josh Lowrey: Yes,

[00:39:52] Karen Harbert: I won't.

[00:39:53] Josh Lowrey: Thank you for your time.

[00:39:54] Karen Harbert: Alright, take

[00:39:54] Josh Lowrey: care. All right. If you have any questions, look us up on all our social media channels. Um, Caterpillar's website. Is fta, easily indexable for any of the videos that they have.

[00:40:02] Josh Lowrey: We're gonna put this one up in the next two weeks. Actually. This will probably go up pretty quickly. So, Karen Har Harbert. Thank you so much, Harbert. Yeah, that's, we're gonna cage in you by the time you leave. Thank you guys very much.

[00:40:12] Karen Harbert: Thank you.