00:00:00 Intro
Welcome to the Power Bytes Podcast brought to you by Caterpillar Electric Power with your host, Ryan Karlin. Each month we deliver the latest insights, trends, and cutting-edge tools to keep you ahead in the dynamic energy industry. Whether you're streamlining operations, embracing new technologies, or want to stay informed, Power Bytes is your go-to source. Join us as we explore innovation shaping the future and the resources you need to succeed. Welcome to Power Bytes, where energy meets innovation.

00:00:27 Ryan Karlin
I'm your host Ryan Karlin, and today we're diving into a topic that's transforming how the energy landscape is viewing waste and power: Biogas. We have the opportunity today to be joined by two Caterpillar guests, Ash Miles and Gustavo Villarreal. They both bring a very unique and deep experience around Biogas, and there’s going to be a great conversation here today. As we talk about Biogas, we'll be covering what it is, how it's made, and why it's becoming a critical part of the energy conversation. First we want to do a quick introduction. Ash, maybe give the listeners a little background about your role and your involvement with electric power?

00:01:03 Ash Miles
Yeah, absolutely, Ryan! Hi, everyone. I'm Ash Miles. I’m based out of Melbourne, Australia. I’m looking after the business development team that are covering Asia Pacific, helping our customers solve their energy problems with customized solutions from Caterpillar.

00:01:18 Ryan Karlin
Fantastic. I appreciate the intro, Ash. We're going to have Gus give a quick intro to the audience as well. Gus, could you give us a little bit of your background and your role?

00:01:27 Gustavo Villarreal
My name is Gustavo Villarreal; my friends call me Gus. And I spent the last 20 years trading energy products, everything from oil and gas to renewables. Now, in my role at Caterpillar as an industry consultant, I get to work with our customers, helping bridge some of their traditional energy problems with emerging energy solutions.

00:01:46 Ryan Karlin
Fantastic. Well, I'm really glad we can have two guests on because, as we heard from the intros, Ash is based in Melbourne and Gus is here in the US. And what we'll get into – and what our listeners will find – is the Biogas conversation, while it does have similarities across the globe, there are a lot of specific regional differences that are helping to shape that conversation in said region. But first, before we dive into some of those nuances, Ash, I want to start with you: Could you give a high-level, EP 101 description on what is Biogas, how is it made, and potentially how is it being used?

00:02:20 Ash Miles
Absolutely, Ryan. Biogas is a key part of the conversation here in Asia Pacific, as it is an energy source produced from the decomposition of organic materials such as food waste, agricultural materials – any organic matter left untreated in the open environment. These materials decompose organically, and this releases greenhouse gases such as methane and carbon dioxide. However, capturing these gases or the decomposing materials within the Biogas plant allows them to be recycled into more useful end products. For this to happen, though, a digester is required. This is where bacteria digest the waste material in a contained environment. Biogas is produced in this process, which then can be used for generating electricity, heating, or even as fuel in vehicles. In my region, the community relies on Biogas for power, making it an essential part of the energy conversation here.

00:03:18 Ryan Karlin
One thing I picked up is you have introduced Biogas being formed from biomass, which is the product that decomposes to create Biogas – a lot around agricultural-type products, which is very big in Asia Pacific. But, Gus, I'm going to turn to you. When we think about North American Biogas, often it's manure or wastewater treatment plants. Do you have anything else to add around what Biogas is, maybe what industries are using Biogas to help create power?

00:03:46 Gustavo Villarreal
Yeah, absolutely, Ryan! So, Biogas is becoming a game changer here in the US, not only as a fuel source, but also for grid stability and decentralization. Some of the potential that it has is turning problems like waste into opportunities. So, for example, industries like you mentioned – the wastewater treatment facilities, agriculture, inedible food waste, landfills, dairy farms – all of these are great sources for Biogas. One of the things that sets the US apart is the sheer scale of organic waste available and some of the solutions and some of the increasing focus on [has been on] reduced GHG emissions and also having increased local energy sources available. That's one of the things that comes to mind when I think of Biogas. Also the untapped opportunity! So much manure and inedible food waste gets discarded that, by some estimates, we're talking about potential gigawatts of continuous power that could be available if tapped into.

00:04:46 Ryan Karlin
I don't want to sound corny, but I'm going to do it. It's one of those things where the phrase, “One man's trash is another man's treasure,” is literally what we're talking about here! It is literally trash (or biomass) and you're turning it into a valuable resource that can be used for power. So, Ash, what are some interesting industries – you mentioned, agricultural – other industries you're seeing in Asia Pacific that are leveraging Biogas to help create reliable power?

00:05:15 Ash Miles
In my region in Asia Pacific, certainly, agricultural waste is the leader for Biogas development. For instance, we have a Malaysian customer of ours that is using the waste from their agricultural work to produce Biogas to power their processing plants. In recent times, this customer [has] started to rapidly grow and expand their Biogas efforts. That's due to their agricultural processing plants being developed in more remote locations where they are unable to connect to a grid power source. Currently there at 30 plants – this customer of ours across Malaysia and Indonesia – generating over 50 megawatts, which is pretty cool. Their product of choice is the Cat CG170. They've chosen this unit because it's quite versatile and reliable. Plus, they've leveraged the Cat dealer network for parts and service in these remote locations. And, certainly, feedback from the customer going forward [is that] the process of turning Biogas into electricity is now at the heart of their energy efforts, which is really promising and great to see.

00:06:24 Ryan Karlin
Well, let's take one of those sites that you talked about. How much volume of waste – or in a different way of saying it: how many megawatts is a typical site there? Are we talking about two megawatts, 10 megawatts? What's baseline in that part of the world?

00:06:39 Ash Miles
Great question. Most of the time they're two- to four-megawatt plants, so rather small really. They're just using electricity for the processing plant. Any leftover electricity, they're actually using to power the local community that supports their agricultural works.

00:06:56 Ryan Karlin
Is that waste being produced 365, and so the power is being produced 365? It's not like here in the US [where] you have a hard winter, so everything dies off and you don't have that agricultural waste. That's kind of a key to Asia Pacific, right, as you have that constant feedstock to help keep the power running? Is that true?

00:07:13 Ash Miles
That's true! And it's essential to make it a successful project. That feedstock reliability is very important for supporting electricity generation.

00:07:22 Ryan Karlin
Gus, I want to bring you back in because, so far, we've talked about manure or wastewater treatment plants – people may think about dairy or swine farms or your local wastewater municipality – and those are typical agents in the industry. But you brought up a big box retailer that is exploring Biogas. I thought it was really interesting, because I thought they were atypical. I heard you talk about them, and I was like, “Wow! They're exploring that?!” I want to bring it up for the audience to hear as well. Could you expand a little bit upon that example?

00:07:54 Gustavo Villarreal
Sure! Retailers sometimes expand and own more than just supply chains. In this particular case, it's dairy farms. Now, I'll bring up the example of dairy farms in Indiana. There's one particular site that we've worked with at Caterpillar, where they have 2,500 dairy cows and the manure from those 2,500 dairy cows have been producing the Biogas, cleaned up, and then even interconnected into the local utility, which is currently providing power [for] up to about 1,000 area homes. So that's just one of the examples that we've had where dairy farms are not only improving their bottom line, but also contributing to the community. Across the country, we also help support wastewater treatment plants. They're using Biogas in their operations. How that helps is that they reduce their own grid reliance, reduce their operating costs, and recycling waste that's already coming into the facility.

00:08:41 Ryan Karlin
As you're talking there, I'm thinking of sustainable feedstock. [In the] US, [we have] cows living and breathing 365, so we're producing waste 365. So [there’s] a constant theme you see where Biogas has a place. If you have a reliable feedstock, you have this source that can help generate power.

00:09:01 Gustavo Villarreal
With the hundreds of tons that the United States outputs annually, having [that] Biogas source can be a continuous source of electricity.

00:09:10 Ryan Karlin
I want to transition us a little bit away from examples of how Biogas is being used and take the conversation one step further around benefits and considerations. Are there other benefits that you see in Biogas?

00:09:24 Gustavo Villarreal
Biogas uniquely hits not just one, but three massive global challenges at the same time. Biogas keeps huge amounts of refuse out of landfills. The process grabs methane, which would have otherwise been emitted by decomposing waste. And it cuts energy bills by potentially turning a waste problem into a revenue stream. Some other points to make here is that there's also challenges associated with it, right? So connecting a Biogas project to the grid or a natural gas pipeline can be costly and complicated, especially in rural areas. These systems certainly are going to require skilled labor, such as operations and maintenance teams who can handle the specific expertise of running a digester or troubleshooting a gas engine. For companies considering that type of investment, it's crucial to assess those site-specific factors that are surrounding those waste streams.

00:10:14 Ryan Karlin
And also to jump in there: It's understanding “how much feed stock and power you'll generate.” “What are you going to do with that power?” Because to interconnect the piece: if you're over-generating your needs, you can power your site, but what are you going to do with that excess power? Are you going to export it to the grid? So, you need to work with your local utilities. So [it’s about] understanding “what can you produce” and “what you're going to do with that produced power.”

00:10:36 Gustavo Villarreal
Something else that's been happening in the US is that there's overall two avenues for Biogas growth: Biogas to power, but also Biogas to RNG (renewable natural gas). One topic that doesn't get enough attention when we talk about renewable natural gas (or RNG) is how it can work alongside our combined heat and power systems. At Caterpillar, we've had a lot of conversations with customers who specifically are curious about using RNG to power and upgrading their equipment. Now, RNG is a high value product, and if you can get it into a pipeline, you can get that into transportation fuel; you can use it as a substitute for natural gas in areas where customers have emissions concerns. When we talk about RNG projects, it's worth considering that CHP is not just an energy solution but a strategic tool. Because if you can capitalize on the electricity that's coming off a genset, plus the thermal energy, you can use that in boilers, you can use that in industrial processes, cutting back on your fossil fuel consumption, and maybe, improving upon this, the CI score of your overall lifecycle.

00:11:44 Ryan Karlin
If you're a listener out there and you believe you have biomass that can be utilized to turn into Biogas and then (obviously) power, what are some considerations, whether it's technical issues, interconnect, things of that nature, that are important first-level questions to ask and to answer?

00:12:04 Gustavo Villarreal
Some considerations connecting a Biogas project through the grid are your proximity to natural gas pipelines or grid interconnection; that can be costly and complicated, just depending on where you're situated. Again, skilled labor, and you're going to need operators, you're going to need maintenance teams. You're going to need to troubleshoot potential engine problems. These are all upfront costs, certainly complex. The complexity of digesting systems, the complexity of combined heat and power systems – you're going to want to make sure to take these into account, as well as your location. If your location is remote, if your location is critical, if you're grid connected, or if you want to feed some of your electricity or renewable natural gas back into the pipeline system – that's yet another cost and consideration.

00:12:53 Ryan Karlin
Ash, I'd love to hear your take on any additional considerations you see when it comes to Biogas.

00:13:02 Ash Miles
We should start with, “What are the customer’s end goals?” That is so important. And simple goals: What is their required power output? What do they require in terms of electricity supply, and (as Gus mentioned) are they going to consider combined heat and power to improve the efficiency of the system (use that heat for boilers processing their agricultural waste)? So that's “the goals.” Then you come back to, “What is the feedstock?” And [with] the feedstock, it is super important that you have consistency. The feedstock supply and the quality of the product – and how much gas (or methane) is coming off that feedstock through a digester. Fluctuations can impact the efficiency of the system, so it's important also to consider local regulations. Certain countries now have incentives for Biogas investment. Customers should be working with their local regulators to see if it's more attractive than what it was previously to get into Biogas to support their local works with electricity.

00:14:11 Ryan Karlin
I've been in the power industry for 10 years now, and when I think about biomass or Biogas … Cavemen since the beginning of times have been burning stuff, we're essentially creating Biogas, right? Or using biomass. But the industry has changed so much. And I think in the last couple of years, since I’ve joined, the explosion and interest in Biogas for onsite power generation has picked up a lot. And there's a lot of conversation going on or right now about how that can be sustainable, how that can be a reliable part of the energy mix. Right?

00:14:43 Gustavo Villarreal
You're absolutely right, Ryan. There's never been a more exciting time to be involved in Biogas in the US. [The year] 2024, according to the American Biogas Council, was a record-setting year for Biogas investment. It's a versatile solution that tackles many of the country's challenges. Again, we're talking about waste reduction and sustainable agriculture, in addition to cutting people's electric bills.

00:15:05 Ryan Karlin
And I think one of the things that through this conversation has come to my mind is there are a lot more opportunities for biomass and Biogas to be an option for someone. I think, Gus, earlier you mentioned 25 cows?

00:15:20 Gustavo Villarreal
That's 2,500!

00:15:21 Ryan Karlin
Twenty-five hundred! Excuse me. Still, though, there is a varying level of range of scale. There are small plants (I'm sure Ash is seen) in Asia Pacific, where maybe a local farmer or community gathered in agricultural waste – or it could be a local municipality with their sewage plant, all the way up to a very large landfill in a city utilizing Biogas. The big take away for me is: in the last several years there has been such an adoption of Biogas for power generation that there's a lot more people that are able to enter the space. As a listener, I’m thinking about – maybe a couple of key takeaways here. Ash, I want to turn it back to you to help wrap us up. What are some of the things our listeners should be thinking about when they're exploring Biogas?

00:16:10 Ash Miles
Well, Ryan, it starts with a conversation, for the customer to reach out. You can discuss what their end goals are, investigate what feedstock they have, and see if we can bring a solution together to support their needs.

00:16:22 Gustavo Villarreal
And just to build upon that, Ash, we have so much equipment that's designed to run efficiently on relatively low methane concentrations. So if you reach out to your Cat dealer or to industry consultants or someone at Cat, we're always happy to help walk you through the solutions. Because, again, it's about more than just new technology – it's about not letting all that energy go to waste!

00:16:43 Ryan Karlin
Perfect. Well, I appreciate you both joining in today. I had a great time discussing this topic here with you. And thanks for the listeners for tuning in!

00:16:51 Outro
Thanks for tuning in to the Power Bytes Podcast. If you enjoyed the show, head on over to cat.com and check out Electric Power for more exciting content. Let's power tomorrow together.